Ericginpa

The drips that I originally had were about 2" apart on either side of dead center. What I found concerning was that the oil that had dripped was considerably darker and really nasty smelling,not at all representative of what is in the engine,as I had just changed it within 100mi. After closer inspection the oil was coming from the bell housing,so I figured either a RMS or an IMS,either way trans had to come out to determine which it was. If the trans is out would rather have the peace of mind of changing both of them.

Flat6 Innovations

Thats right, but it does not pertain to our completely reconstructed engines which have a one year unlimited mileage conditional warranty.

Yes.

Failures are failures, no matter what flavor you end up in the same boat. We do not become concerned with percentages here, just volumes. Percentages of failure cannot be accurately gathered anyway, because the items necessary to create the equation are not certain.

I don't believe that you understand this completely enough to be making these sorts of statements.

Lets go over those five other associated failures often misdiagnosed as an IMSBF:

IMS drive chain failure-
Can't be retrofitted with the engine assembled. The IMS drive chain is the 4th item assembled into the engine during the build up, it is at the heart of the engine. If this fails you have no choice but a complete teardown.

IMS tensioner paddle failure
7th item assembled into the engine, no retrofit here either, complete teardown required.

Main timing chain failureI
These are no "master linked" chains, to change them requires full teardown. No retrofits here either and after this fails the parts are grenaded too bad for rebuild anyway with rampant collateral damage.

IMS Drive chain guide failure
Installed onto the crank carrier, you can't access it without a tear down.

IMS drive sprocket slippage
These sprockets are affixed (poorly) tio the IMS tube, when they slip valve/ piston contact occurs. Full teardown required.

Now, what you must understand is the fact that our service is for a BEARING RETROFIT and we do all the associated items that can be appl,ied electively without full teardown at that time as well. The five items posted previously are not included in whats possible of retrofitting with the ENGINE ASSEMBLED.During a retrofit we simply do wbat is mechanically and humanly possible without complete engine disassembly.

With our completely reconstructed engines ALL of these items are addressed and upgraded along with the 17 other modes of failiure that we have witnessed and this is done as standard, its not optional at this full level. We have perfected severl solutions for different failure situations and price points.

Some people believe that IMS bearing issues are myth. Some believe they are real and electively retrofit their Porsche. Some never know about the issues and call us up AFTER they had a bad day wondering why, those people know the issues exist, two of them called me today. This week has been a record for us, we have SIX more cars inbound, 5 of which that have failures, one is coming for an elective procedure. The demand is so much we had to contract a second shipping company to cart these cars all across the country and into Canada.

All M96 owners have the same choices
-Electively retrofit
-Don't care
-Take the risks
-Wait till it pops and hope you've been living right, because Karma is a bitch

DreamCarrera

I respectfully disagree. Certainly I do not understand these engines as well as you do but explain to me where I am wrong in my thinking.

I made the comment that your retrofit bearing does not address the five other failure modes which you yourself admitted are actually misdiagnosed as IMS bearing failures. In your post above you made my case for me by stating that the five other modes of failure are in fact not addressed by simply replacing the bearing. What am I not understanding? I am not referring to the rebuilt engines that your company sells. I am simply referring to the installation of the your retrofit bearing as an elective preventative procedure.

You have presumably sold many retrofit bearings to customers who installed them in their cars as a prophylactic. I would bet many of them, after installing your bearing believed that they completely solved any potential IMS issues by simply replacing the bearing. Now you post that the M96 engine is prone to many other IMS related failures which have nothing to do with the bearing and cannot be prevented by simply replacing the IMS bearing with your aftermarket bearing. Did you tell the people buying your retrofit bearing about the five other failure modes, which could potentially occur even after they switched to your bearing, before they purchased your product?

Flat6 Innovations

.
Ok, you have that right. Life isn't about agreement.

No problem. Get this straight, we are not arguing and their will be no "winner" between you and I, the readers that do not thoroughly understand this will be the winners. I appreciate your dialogue as it allows us to share statements that would otherwise not be expressed.

Absolutely. TheIMS bearing failure is the most known of all failures, today it is quite often that it is blamed for failures when it isn't the actual cause of the failure. These cars and engines come to us with dead IMS bearings, but then we find another primary mode of failure.

Correct, but one certainly is and what you must understand is that shy of a complete reconstruction at our level, the others CANNOT be addressed.

That not everyone is willing to spend 18-22K for an engine thats reconstructed and addresses the other five areas that I have discussed. Remember, **I** am the person that brought those five points up, you'd have zero argument and would not even understand that those things even exist had I not electively stated those things.

I understand that. What you still don't understand is the fact that the IMS bearing still fails more than any other single MOF that we see here. While there are other modes of failure that may mask themselves as an IMSBF, it is still the most notable of all. Since the other five MOFs are deep within the engine they do not warrant being addressed unless the engine is apart, to change the IMS drive chain expends as much labor as a complete engine reassembly.

They may, but on a routine basis we tell these purchasers that the IMS bearing is not the "be all, end all" of engine failures and while it addresses one significant MOF it does not guarantee that one of the others will not effect their engine. I state this in my warranty disclaimer which has only bold fonts and no fine print and I've been sharing this information for several years, to include today.

No, you just noticed this, its nothing new. No Unicorns and Rainbows here, replacement of the IMS bearing isn't magical.

Yep. Here is a sample of a post from January of 2009 where I shared some of this information concerning IMS tensioner paddle failure, MOF#14.
http://986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19297

The statement below can be found in my extensive explanation of the IMSR procedure on my main Flat 6 Innovations website:

This is an excerpt from this page of my website that explains exactly what is done during a Flat 6 Innovations IMSR procedure.
http://www.flat6innovations.com/serv...rofit?start=10

So, to answer your question; yes we verbally state this and its right there in the REQUIRED READING that we ensure each owner that schedules an IMSR procedure reads. For further clarification I posted it right here as well, so others can also be exposed to it. We don't sugar coat anything, things that others hide or would put into fine print we boldly state and for very good reason. Everything we do here is engaged with a written proposal thats just as forward, just as bold and clearly stated.

Thats the beauty of my newest development, it is designed for IMS related failures, but can also warn against other modes of failure that are imminent. It will cost roughly 10% of the cost of our IMSR procedure, which is important considering the value of the cars and the cost related to an IMSR procedure.

Thank you for the opportunity to explain a few things a little bette. No, the IMSR doesn't solve it all and yes there are AT LEAST five other things that can have similar symptoms to those of an IMSBF that cannot be addressed without full engine disassembly. The fact still exists that the IMSR procedure has saved dozens of engines that were experiencing stage 3 bearing failures and were able to be retrofitted before collateral damage occurred. If we had only been able to save just one of those engines, I'd consider the technology to be priceless. Remember, according to the MFR the IMS bearing cannot be removed~.

I am positive that over time more engines will be misdiagnosed with IMSBF and that we'll find other modes of failure that also mask themselves as the IMSBF. Just this week we had an engine come in that was experiencing a stage 3 IMSBF AND it also had a new failure, as it dropped a valve seat and illustrated another MOF to us.. Two things were failing at once.

Ericginpa

Well said. In addition to what Jake has said no one is suggesting that every one change the bearing. I have elected to change mine simply because I bought the car 2 weeks ago and it had been sitting for about 8 months, in addition to the fact that the service records were somewhat incomplete. I felt that not being responsible for the first 51k mi that I would do as much preventative mantainance as possible. I'm changing the rms,IMS,doin the clutch and the oil separator,then I intend to run the wheels off it,as it is my daily driver.

ivangene

this is just NOT TRUE

I suggest that everyone do it - and I suggest it often even if I add the info that my old car has 130k miles on the original bearing and seems to have no issue...I still say - replace it when its the right time for you...beit at clutch change, oil leak or a Saturday morning when you have had enough sleepless nights.........sorry, I do

Ericginpa

I apologize for not being clear, I agree that it should be changed,but every owner is going to determine how high on the list of priorities it is. I put it first ( within the first two weeks of ownership)but others may not

DreamCarrera

No need to thank me, I'm just glad to be a part of your...I mean Ericginpa's infomercial.

Although, I don't quite know why you keep saying that I don't understand this and that when I fully understand everything that has been said here.

I guess the real moral of this story is that if 996 owners want a truly reliable M96 engine we must purchase Jake's fully rebuilt replacement engine.

Damn you Porsche!!!

DreamCarrera

Have you posted pics of your leaking bearing yet to help educate all of us?

For that matter, have you posted pics of your new 996?

Ericginpa

I don't have pics,as I only have an iPad and honestly don't know how to upload to it. Allow my to clarify somethings, I am NOT affiliated with any parts house or repair shop. I am a truck driver that lives in Milford Pa. I have been lurking around on this and other forums as a guest for about 16m months, in an effort to learn as much about my dream car as possible. I've watched the videos that Shark Attack was good enough to post on you-tube, and have read every thread I could find regarding preventative measures. Frankly the only bearing I worry about is in my engine, I have nothing to gain or lose contingent on whether or not you do your bearing. As far as pic go as I said I don't have the ability to upload them, but would be happy to txt them to you when I get the bearing out.

jw97C2S

There have been many "informercials" like this one. Unfortunately most members aren't bright enough to see them. This poster pulls the trans three day after initially posting, has an ipad but no digital camera.

This was my personal favorite. Nine pages, 40 posts by the OP and not a word again from him after the infomercial was over. Now that's marketing.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...tor-blown.html

Ericginpa

I am the op if you'de like I'll txt you the pics. You guys are something else. I couldn't possible care less if you do your bearings or not. I chose to do mine because I've seen pics of damage from failures and know that my car had been sitting for at least 8mos. It was a personal choice to do the bearing and clutch for my peace of mind, I'm also changing the aos as well. Is that ok with you? I've have yet to mention where my parts are coming from or how much they cost. As I said I don't care about your bearing, I'm here to get info because this is a DIY for me. I truly don't mean to sound sound angry but could really do without the implications.

Flat6 Innovations

You asked questions, I answered them in detail. You made statements and I amde clarifications in detail.

Based on your statements and the depth of clarification I found necessary to get the details across, I'd have to disagree.

You said it, not me. There are other solutions, any potential purchaser must do their homework and inquire with every company offering engine solutions for the M96.

We were developing these engines when the owners of some other shops that have now jumped on the bandwagon were laughing at us for wasting our time. They said "Why work with these throw away engines when a new one can be bought for less than it cost to rebuild?". We had forethought and foresight and knew the engines would double in price and over time they would go away from the Porsche catalog.

We train technicians how to work with these engines and I am currently writing the book on M96 engine assembly. There is a difference, I created THE SUBSTITUTE.

jw97C2S

So you can pull the trans on a 996 but can't upload pics on the internet. Sounds about right. Even doing so now wouldn't matter since you've had plenty of time to find some. What will prove that you aren't an infomercial is whether you continue posting after the commercial is over. Most don't. I'm sure we'll get some updates once you are ready to "install" the bearing.

Flat6 Innovations

If it was an infomercial I'd be posting pics for him.

It never ceases to amaze me how much people thing that everything has some commercial content or backing. Do you think the same thing when you watch TV? If not, perhaps you should.

Have any of you ever thought that perhaps people just want to share both their thoughts as well as actions? Some people want to change the IMS bearing electively and they want to share that, just like Shark Attack did.

Vendor hatred is what its all about, I suppose.