Not another IMS thread!
03-08-2011, 02:33 PM
#16
Racer
Thread Starter
Hey Jake, (and anyone else who professes to know the answers) The flat 6 / lNE bearing kit has arrived and although I have read every IMS thread on the internet, (and the 1 page LNE instructions) I still have a couple of questions.
FWIW, the Porsche in question is a 1999 C2 6 speed cabriolet.
1. There are 3 chain tensioners to remove. Two are reasonably easy to access and the third is a bear. Most people are saying you only need to remove the 2 easy ones and the third is "optional" True?
2. The engine needs to be locked at TDC. Finding TDC is not easy. But locking the engine at either TDC or 360 degrees off TDC is easy. I read somewhere that either TDC or 360 off TDC is acceptable, both positions have the cams unloaded.
3. I read in one post just about a year ago that you were developing an installation DVD and the DVD was pretty close to completion. You commented that a DVD would ship with future kits. I did not get a DVD in my box.
Does one exist?
4. Someone suggested that it might be easier to replace the slave cylinder bolts with studs and nuts. I can't recall how the slave fits on. I am all for changing bolts to studs and nuts if you think it's an option.
I will be feeling a whole lot better about this job if I can just stick the crank lock pin in at TDC or 360 off and pull the two tensioners and GO TO TOWN! I'm ready to get this poor car back on the road. It's been lounging in my garage for too long.
Thanks,
Doug
FWIW, the Porsche in question is a 1999 C2 6 speed cabriolet.
1. There are 3 chain tensioners to remove. Two are reasonably easy to access and the third is a bear. Most people are saying you only need to remove the 2 easy ones and the third is "optional" True?
2. The engine needs to be locked at TDC. Finding TDC is not easy. But locking the engine at either TDC or 360 degrees off TDC is easy. I read somewhere that either TDC or 360 off TDC is acceptable, both positions have the cams unloaded.
3. I read in one post just about a year ago that you were developing an installation DVD and the DVD was pretty close to completion. You commented that a DVD would ship with future kits. I did not get a DVD in my box.
Does one exist?4. Someone suggested that it might be easier to replace the slave cylinder bolts with studs and nuts. I can't recall how the slave fits on. I am all for changing bolts to studs and nuts if you think it's an option.
I will be feeling a whole lot better about this job if I can just stick the crank lock pin in at TDC or 360 off and pull the two tensioners and GO TO TOWN! I'm ready to get this poor car back on the road. It's been lounging in my garage for too long.
Thanks,
Doug
03-08-2011, 05:33 PM
#17
Instructor
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I was wondering if the locking pin in and the pulley tick mark lines up with the mark on the engine - is that TDC or can that be BDC also?
PS. good question if you need to back out the 3rd tensioner-
PS. good question if you need to back out the 3rd tensioner-
03-08-2011, 09:58 PM
#18
Former Vendor
First off.. Forget TDC/ BDC per cylinder. Lock the crank at TDC as instructed and don't worry about "why". People over thinking this is the source of issues, because the design of the M96 doesn't matter what cylinder is at TDC or TDC overlap.
Sure.. Since you got our bearing, feel fre to call me directly for support. I won't answer the questions of those who don't buy from us, but you did pay for support.
Ok, all are created equally, from a 1997 2.5 through a 2008 3.8
By the book you are supposed to pull all 3, practical application tells us that you don't have to. The choice is yours.
IT DOES NOT MATTER!!! TDC on cylinder #1 is TDC overlap on cylinder #4. TDC #4 is TDC overlap on cylinder #1. THE PROCESS CAN EQUALLY BE CARRIED OUT IN EITHER POSITION. Lock the crank at the position of TDC and don't worry about if thats #1 or #4. Lock the crank and forget it.
Its on my hard drive.. Its partially edited, but is far from being finished. We have revised the procedure 3 times in the past year and have made more tools to lock cams and etc. We can now finish it, but it won't be anytime near term
Thats up to you, I am an "internalist"
Do it.
Hey Jake, (and anyone else who professes to know the answers) The flat 6 / lNE bearing kit has arrived and although I have read every IMS thread on the internet, (and the 1 page LNE instructions) I still have a couple of questions.
FWIW, the Porsche in question is a 1999 C2 6 speed cabriolet.
1. There are 3 chain tensioners to remove. Two are reasonably easy to access and the third is a bear. Most people are saying you only need to remove the 2 easy ones and the third is "optional" True?
2. The engine needs to be locked at TDC. Finding TDC is not easy. But locking the engine at either TDC or 360 degrees off TDC is easy. I read somewhere that either TDC or 360 off TDC is acceptable, both positions have the cams unloaded.
3. I read in one post just about a year ago that you were developing an installation DVD and the DVD was pretty close to completion. You commented that a DVD would ship with future kits. I did not get a DVD in my box. Does one exist?
4. Someone suggested that it might be easier to replace the slave cylinder bolts with studs and nuts. I can't recall how the slave fits on. I am all for changing bolts to studs and nuts if you think it's an option.
I will be feeling a whole lot better about this job if I can just stick the crank lock pin in at TDC or 360 off and pull the two tensioners and GO TO TOWN! I'm ready to get this poor car back on the road. It's been lounging in my garage for too long.
03-09-2011, 06:23 PM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks Jake. Fair enough on the support issue. There ia a local independent shop that agreed to loan me a rear main seal driver tool and a clutch alignment tool over the weekend. So the RMS is getting replaced as well.
The shop wants to check out the new ceramic IMS bearing, so he asked me to bring it in when I borrow the tools. He was not familiar with the LNE design, but he said they have been doing replacements with the factory stock bearing. Which surprised me since I didn't think Porsche was selling them separately.
I might be pulling the bearing Friday. If I can't get to it, can I call on the weekend if I run into trouble? And what is the number I call?
The shop wants to check out the new ceramic IMS bearing, so he asked me to bring it in when I borrow the tools. He was not familiar with the LNE design, but he said they have been doing replacements with the factory stock bearing. Which surprised me since I didn't think Porsche was selling them separately.
I might be pulling the bearing Friday. If I can't get to it, can I call on the weekend if I run into trouble? And what is the number I call?
03-13-2011, 04:36 PM
#22
Racer
Thread Starter
Bearing is out! Very simple. takes some force to get the bearing to pop out of the circlip but not bad. Then pop! and its easy from there. Lots of oil poured out from behind. But clean and not burnt smelling. Bearing is tight in its race. zero play. Both sides have perfect seals. This bearing was definitely not a problem at the moment.
Tensioners looked good too. No scoring, clean and free. I pulled 2 of the 3. I did not pull the 4-6, and don't think it's necessary EVER. That tensioner is connected to the chain that wraps around the belt pully sprocket (opposite side) If the belt pully is pinned, there is no way you could get movement over there.
Now to pull my new bearing and driver from the freezer and install.
Tensioners looked good too. No scoring, clean and free. I pulled 2 of the 3. I did not pull the 4-6, and don't think it's necessary EVER. That tensioner is connected to the chain that wraps around the belt pully sprocket (opposite side) If the belt pully is pinned, there is no way you could get movement over there.
Now to pull my new bearing and driver from the freezer and install.
03-13-2011, 10:10 PM
#24
Racer
Thread Starter
All done toughest part of the bearing job was the circlip for the double row bearing. you need 3 hands to put it in. Actually the toughest part was replacing the AOS. That's a PITA. Big tip: put the clutch slave on before you connect up the tranny. You have lots of access to the bolts. Takes 2 mins.
Last edited by Cefalu; 03-14-2011 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Typos!
03-14-2011, 01:18 PM
#26
I just had my tranny out and replaced the AOS, clutch, PP and bearing. RMS was perfectly dry so I left it alone. By your description your flywheel sounds like it is fine. I would recommend taking a 3M pad and scuffing the mating surface of the flywheel, cleans up the burnished area where the clutch disk has been riding. This will help bed your new disk. As a side note, I didn't do the IMS as I have a replacement engine from Porsche with the revised single row bearing. Replaced by Porsche in 2006.
03-14-2011, 03:34 PM
#27
Racer
Thread Starter
I finished last night at 11. But I forgot to buy oil so I couldn't fire it up! The moment of truth still awaits. It's a long job but not technical, aside from maybe the bearing R&R. Here are a few tips for those who may want to get intimate with their car
1. R&R the clutch slave when the trans is down. The slave is attached to a flex line so you can drop the trans down for easy access to the bolts. People have talked about spending hours on the slave R&R I spent just a few minutes.
2. You do not need to pull the tensioner for cylinders 4-6. That chain is attached to the opposite end of the crank from the IMS bearing. When you lock the drive pully with a dowel that chain isn't going anywhere. When you pull the tensioner for cylinders 1-3 be prepared for all your oil to drain out if you didn't drain it already. I had just done an oil change and didn't want to drain it, but once I pulled that tensioner, all gone! Incidentally, the independant shop I borrowed the main seal tool from said they don't bother to pull any tensioners at all! Pulling those 2 tensioners is fast and easy insurance.
3. To access the upper bell housing bolts you need about 3 feet of extensions and a good universal. Go with 1/2" drive. 3/8" flexes too much.
4. The axle half shafts are 8mm allen. Break the half shafts loose with a short allen, they are tight.
Get a long, say 5" allen to R&R while they are not torqued down, it will go faster. The long allen helps get around the rubber bellows. Use the short allen to torque down.
5. While you are working on the car support the engine bottom with a floor jack. It will make your life way easier to get at all the misc bolts, and facilitate aligning the engine to trans when you are mating it up. I was constantly moving the engine up and down when doing the AOS, RMS and IMS bearing. I also replaced the 4 bolts that connect the case halves. But! the floor jack will not support the engine long term. You need to stick a support under it when you are not working on the car because th ejack will leak down.
6. The AOS is a bitch to get to even with the trans out. It was definitely the hardest part of the job. The two ~1" Dia. hoses are a bear to remove. They do have reusable connectors. But the small coolant lines (yes coolant) lines to the AOS have crimped clamps that I cut off with a big pair of really big pair of wire cutters. Lousy access. I thought the small lines were vapor lines so I got a coolant surprise in the face. The two bigger hoses use O rings. Order them and replace them. I think they are 18X2.5MM. Naturally, my dealer did not have them in stock.
7. The RMS is pretty straightforward. I used the latest one for the Cayenne. I drilled two holes on opposite sides and used screws and hammer claws to pull it out. You need decent sized screws. The small ones I used at first pulled out.
8. The IMS is pretty well documented already. Lock the crank pully, pull the two tensioners, (main and 1-3), pull the flange cover off, screw the hex adapter all the way down on the IMS threaded shaft then thread on the removal tool. The torque needed to remove was not too bad, but felt slightly uncomfortable. So I let the tool sit for 5 seconds, and turned the nut again and it popped and it was home free from there. Put the bearing and driver in the freezer first to shrink. Mine went right in without too much beating. It was a snug fit but not too much so.
all in all not too bad
1. R&R the clutch slave when the trans is down. The slave is attached to a flex line so you can drop the trans down for easy access to the bolts. People have talked about spending hours on the slave R&R I spent just a few minutes.
2. You do not need to pull the tensioner for cylinders 4-6. That chain is attached to the opposite end of the crank from the IMS bearing. When you lock the drive pully with a dowel that chain isn't going anywhere. When you pull the tensioner for cylinders 1-3 be prepared for all your oil to drain out if you didn't drain it already. I had just done an oil change and didn't want to drain it, but once I pulled that tensioner, all gone! Incidentally, the independant shop I borrowed the main seal tool from said they don't bother to pull any tensioners at all! Pulling those 2 tensioners is fast and easy insurance.
3. To access the upper bell housing bolts you need about 3 feet of extensions and a good universal. Go with 1/2" drive. 3/8" flexes too much.
4. The axle half shafts are 8mm allen. Break the half shafts loose with a short allen, they are tight.
Get a long, say 5" allen to R&R while they are not torqued down, it will go faster. The long allen helps get around the rubber bellows. Use the short allen to torque down.
5. While you are working on the car support the engine bottom with a floor jack. It will make your life way easier to get at all the misc bolts, and facilitate aligning the engine to trans when you are mating it up. I was constantly moving the engine up and down when doing the AOS, RMS and IMS bearing. I also replaced the 4 bolts that connect the case halves. But! the floor jack will not support the engine long term. You need to stick a support under it when you are not working on the car because th ejack will leak down.
6. The AOS is a bitch to get to even with the trans out. It was definitely the hardest part of the job. The two ~1" Dia. hoses are a bear to remove. They do have reusable connectors. But the small coolant lines (yes coolant) lines to the AOS have crimped clamps that I cut off with a big pair of really big pair of wire cutters. Lousy access. I thought the small lines were vapor lines so I got a coolant surprise in the face. The two bigger hoses use O rings. Order them and replace them. I think they are 18X2.5MM. Naturally, my dealer did not have them in stock.
7. The RMS is pretty straightforward. I used the latest one for the Cayenne. I drilled two holes on opposite sides and used screws and hammer claws to pull it out. You need decent sized screws. The small ones I used at first pulled out.
8. The IMS is pretty well documented already. Lock the crank pully, pull the two tensioners, (main and 1-3), pull the flange cover off, screw the hex adapter all the way down on the IMS threaded shaft then thread on the removal tool. The torque needed to remove was not too bad, but felt slightly uncomfortable. So I let the tool sit for 5 seconds, and turned the nut again and it popped and it was home free from there. Put the bearing and driver in the freezer first to shrink. Mine went right in without too much beating. It was a snug fit but not too much so.
all in all not too bad
Last edited by Cefalu; 10-09-2011 at 02:40 PM. Reason: typo
03-14-2011, 03:44 PM
#28
Instructor
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interesting that the indy shop said they dont pull the tensioners- an indy over here told me they dont need to change the oil ( im assuming they dont pull the tensioners either )
03-14-2011, 03:52 PM
#29
Former Vendor
Not pulling the tensioners for an IMSR??
Someone is on crack. Take that from the guy that did the first one LN Retrofit! ALL tensioners are dirty, they need to be cleaned if nothing else.
Someone did this without changing the oil? Thats horrible! the new bearing will love all that dirty oil while it is going through its initial break in process.
Someone is on crack. Take that from the guy that did the first one LN Retrofit! ALL tensioners are dirty, they need to be cleaned if nothing else.
Someone did this without changing the oil? Thats horrible! the new bearing will love all that dirty oil while it is going through its initial break in process.
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