Car won't start :(
02-01-2011, 07:27 PM
#31
Instructor
Thread Starter
Well it's been at the shop for the past 3 weeks. They called me about 10 days ago and told me they couldn't figure out what the problem was, so they were having it towed to another porsche shop in the area.
They called me this afternoon and told me it's the immobilizer and it's 300 for the part and 400 for labor
Yikes! I asked them if there was a way to bypass this, and they said there is no way, which seems to be true for the most part based on a quick google search other than reprogramming the ecu to run without it.
Anyways I also asked them if I could sleep on it, and give them a call in the morning, and they said that was fine.
What are my options guys? Bite the bullet? Ghetto rig something
I read a post on one forum that mentioned running a fuel delivery only ecu?
They called me this afternoon and told me it's the immobilizer and it's 300 for the part and 400 for labor
Yikes! I asked them if there was a way to bypass this, and they said there is no way, which seems to be true for the most part based on a quick google search other than reprogramming the ecu to run without it.
Anyways I also asked them if I could sleep on it, and give them a call in the morning, and they said that was fine.
What are my options guys? Bite the bullet? Ghetto rig something
I read a post on one forum that mentioned running a fuel delivery only ecu?
02-01-2011, 07:41 PM
#32
Race Director
Well it's been at the shop for the past 3 weeks. They called me about 10 days ago and told me they couldn't figure out what the problem was, so they were having it towed to another porsche shop in the area.
They called me this afternoon and told me it's the immobilizer and it's 300 for the part and 400 for labor
Yikes! I asked them if there was a way to bypass this, and they said there is no way, which seems to be true for the most part based on a quick google search other than reprogramming the ecu to run without it.
Anyways I also asked them if I could sleep on it, and give them a call in the morning, and they said that was fine.
What are my options guys? Bite the bullet? Ghetto rig something I read a post on one forum that mentioned running a fuel delivery only ecu?
They called me this afternoon and told me it's the immobilizer and it's 300 for the part and 400 for labor
Yikes! I asked them if there was a way to bypass this, and they said there is no way, which seems to be true for the most part based on a quick google search other than reprogramming the ecu to run without it.
Anyways I also asked them if I could sleep on it, and give them a call in the morning, and they said that was fine.
What are my options guys? Bite the bullet? Ghetto rig something
I read a post on one forum that mentioned running a fuel delivery only ecu?The security system is quite integrated into the car to make stealing the car as difficult as it can be so not likely it can be bypassed by anything that would prove to be as secure and as reliable/robust as the existing security system (barring your unfortunate experience).
Furthermore, I would advise you to in the future to avoid letting the car's battery get into such a sad state that you have to resort to jump starting the vehicle. Jump starting one of these cars is always risky.
Sincerely,
Macster.
02-01-2011, 08:41 PM
#33
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See my earlier post on this thread about the immobilizer. I had that code come up, but as I posted, replacing the battery and clearing the trouble codes took care of the issue.
So at the very least, make sure they've tried a new battery on it before you spring for replacing the immobilizer.
As far as the costs, what you were quoted for immobilizer replacement sounds very fair. Actually, it sounds low judging by what I was told, but then, I didn't actually need to get the work done. Apparently programming a new one of these is a bit of a hassle.
Good luck!
So at the very least, make sure they've tried a new battery on it before you spring for replacing the immobilizer.
As far as the costs, what you were quoted for immobilizer replacement sounds very fair. Actually, it sounds low judging by what I was told, but then, I didn't actually need to get the work done. Apparently programming a new one of these is a bit of a hassle.
Good luck!
02-01-2011, 10:33 PM
#34
I've had the car parked for the past 2-3 weeks, I don't drive it very often, but it starts up fine every time with a jump.
I think you mentioned disconnecting things so that there isn't a drain on the battery. That could of triggered the theft mentality of the cars computer. I don't know. I do know a bad battery even when a good 12 volt source is connected can give you the symptoms of there is no click tick or relays doing anything. This is especially true with bad cells in a battery where it will suck the power of the attached battery. The battery has to be able to give amps out while near 12 volts. A bad cell battery can read 12 volts all day but fall on its face giving miniscule amps when its too far gone. Jumping the car after parking for a few weeks will tell you the battery is screwed up. Next time replace the battery. I don't know what will become of this time around but if the guys at that shop haven't tried replacing the battery instead of jumping it I'd stop them in their tracks and do the dump the old battery first. Then try to start. If you don't trust a shop coming up with a diagnosis of the self destruct countdown timer is engaged and it has to be replaced then walk in and just say let's try just replacing the battery and see what happens and watch to see that's all that is done with no other games. This is after making sure the ecu is connected, so possibly try getting something out of the car to see if the interior lights are on and things are good.
I know it at least started with a bad battery and could of easily ended in computer says rebooting with fresh power too many times is enough and just shuts down after getting jolted or straining for juice to its logic. Just like me wondering why you didn't just replace the battery when it was flaky
I've seen over 40 years of battery games and symptoms. Believe me. Even Mr DieHard tech will screw up diagnosing with his fancy machine unintentionally or intentionally.
02-02-2011, 03:26 AM
#35
Instructor
Thread Starter
I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if they tried a new battery.
A girl I went to elementary school with, and who's mom used to drive me to school, and her dad owned a porsche shop. I contacted her after I got the car, and tried to contact her dad, but no such luck. Her brother did recommend this shop to me and used to work there, so I think they're taking care of me.
When I needed an oil change, all the porsche shops wanted 220+ They charged me $130, and told me I had a slight oil leak but it wasn't a problem that needed any addressing. I asked if it was much trouble putting on an x51 oil pan and they said they could do it next time I went in for an oil change.
A girl I went to elementary school with, and who's mom used to drive me to school, and her dad owned a porsche shop. I contacted her after I got the car, and tried to contact her dad, but no such luck. Her brother did recommend this shop to me and used to work there, so I think they're taking care of me.
When I needed an oil change, all the porsche shops wanted 220+ They charged me $130, and told me I had a slight oil leak but it wasn't a problem that needed any addressing. I asked if it was much trouble putting on an x51 oil pan and they said they could do it next time I went in for an oil change.
02-02-2011, 05:39 AM
#36
Yah being lazy has its price hehehe. I've done the let somebody else do the oil change a couple of times and write the money they charge off as it helps keep them in business. Good luck with the car. Since the battery power went up and down and totally off a few it might of jammed up the computer brain in whatever is wrong in there. Can't have a perfect world I guess.
02-02-2011, 12:30 PM
#37
RL Community Team
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Rennlist Member
02-02-2011, 06:19 PM
#38
Race Director
I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if they tried a new battery.
A girl I went to elementary school with, and who's mom used to drive me to school, and her dad owned a porsche shop. I contacted her after I got the car, and tried to contact her dad, but no such luck. Her brother did recommend this shop to me and used to work there, so I think they're taking care of me.
When I needed an oil change, all the porsche shops wanted 220+ They charged me $130, and told me I had a slight oil leak but it wasn't a problem that needed any addressing. I asked if it was much trouble putting on an x51 oil pan and they said they could do it next time I went in for an oil change.
A girl I went to elementary school with, and who's mom used to drive me to school, and her dad owned a porsche shop. I contacted her after I got the car, and tried to contact her dad, but no such luck. Her brother did recommend this shop to me and used to work there, so I think they're taking care of me.
When I needed an oil change, all the porsche shops wanted 220+ They charged me $130, and told me I had a slight oil leak but it wasn't a problem that needed any addressing. I asked if it was much trouble putting on an x51 oil pan and they said they could do it next time I went in for an oil change.
My local Porsche service department charges me $140 for an oil/filter service, but I supply the oil. I buy it by the case from a nearby (here in Hayward CA) Mobil oil distributor.
Sincerely,
Macster.
05-09-2011, 04:47 PM
#39
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My 02 Boxster exhibited a similar no start behavior. Everything looked normal but the engine would not crank.
Took the car to the local Porsche dealer. Tech tried to reproduce the no start symptom but of course the engine fired right up every time.
Even though no clear diagnosis I directed him to replace the ignition switch, the whole thing save the part the key fits into. He said he's never seen one of these go bad. But the mechanical switch assembly and the electrical switch box on the back.
At the same time I had him replace the clutch interlock switch and the cruise control disable switch. I bought these along with the brake light switch after it was clear the brake light switch was worn out. I replace the brake light switch on my own but never got around to replacing the clutch or cruise control disable switches. The tech's pre-ignition switch testing didn't turn up a clutch interlock switch problem though.
After the ignition switch replaced the car started just fine. Also, the tech told me the switch didn't look that bad, he's seen much worse.
Ok I took a shot and maybe it was the wrong shot. Still the switch had a lot of starts under its belt: The car had about 220K (or more) miles at the time the switch was replaced so I had gotten my money's worth out of the switch.
Anyhow, months and months later the same symptom reappeared. Not nearly as bad as before.
I spoke with him recently about this and he said it may be the clutch hardware (pedal hardware) has worn enough (car now has over 238K miles on it) that even though the clutch interlock switch is ok (it was replaced when the ignition switch was replaced) the clutch is not going down far enough to always close the switch.
He said it is not hard to bend the switch holder bracket a bit to make the clutch pedal lever or whatever contacts this switch to cause the switch to be more fully depressed and thus fix a marginal or intermittent clutch interlock switch contact problem. That is the switch is ok it is just the hardware that contacts the switch is not fully contacting the switch. IOWs, it is a mechanical problem and not an electrical problem.
I have not done this yet but in the meantime I have made a conscious effort to be sure I do fully depress the clutch pedal.
After doing this I can't remember the last time the engine failed to start right up.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Took the car to the local Porsche dealer. Tech tried to reproduce the no start symptom but of course the engine fired right up every time.
Even though no clear diagnosis I directed him to replace the ignition switch, the whole thing save the part the key fits into. He said he's never seen one of these go bad. But the mechanical switch assembly and the electrical switch box on the back.
At the same time I had him replace the clutch interlock switch and the cruise control disable switch. I bought these along with the brake light switch after it was clear the brake light switch was worn out. I replace the brake light switch on my own but never got around to replacing the clutch or cruise control disable switches. The tech's pre-ignition switch testing didn't turn up a clutch interlock switch problem though.
After the ignition switch replaced the car started just fine. Also, the tech told me the switch didn't look that bad, he's seen much worse.
Ok I took a shot and maybe it was the wrong shot. Still the switch had a lot of starts under its belt: The car had about 220K (or more) miles at the time the switch was replaced so I had gotten my money's worth out of the switch.
Anyhow, months and months later the same symptom reappeared. Not nearly as bad as before.
I spoke with him recently about this and he said it may be the clutch hardware (pedal hardware) has worn enough (car now has over 238K miles on it) that even though the clutch interlock switch is ok (it was replaced when the ignition switch was replaced) the clutch is not going down far enough to always close the switch.
He said it is not hard to bend the switch holder bracket a bit to make the clutch pedal lever or whatever contacts this switch to cause the switch to be more fully depressed and thus fix a marginal or intermittent clutch interlock switch contact problem. That is the switch is ok it is just the hardware that contacts the switch is not fully contacting the switch. IOWs, it is a mechanical problem and not an electrical problem.
I have not done this yet but in the meantime I have made a conscious effort to be sure I do fully depress the clutch pedal.
After doing this I can't remember the last time the engine failed to start right up.
Sincerely,
Macster.
10-08-2022, 07:37 PM
#40
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Hi, lots of good info here , as I have been dealing with this failure at totally random periods, I thought about an organized explanation for a 996.
When you put the key first there is a reading of the code, if that doesn't match wont crank, that rarely fails and if it does is beyond what we can DIY so will leave that there. When you turn the ignition switch sends a signal (1st failure point) then at the same time you have to press the clutch which activates a switch (2nd failure point) if those are pressed and the cables are not cut (cables is another failure point but we will ignore that for now) the computer (lets assume the computer is ok as is also beyond DIY) there is a signal sent to the starter relay (3rd failure point) behind the back seats. If that relay is working the signal is sent to the starter solenoid (4th failure point) which then activates electricity to turn the starter motor. I will handle starter solenoid and starter as the same thing, there is enough work in taking out the starter to justify changing the whole thing if the solenoid fails. To diagnose the issue you start backwards.
1- Do you hear anything when you turn the key? If you hear something (unless you have uncovered the starter relay or the carpet behind the back seats, you are hearing the starter. That means some electricity is getting there, you can rule out failure points 1, 2 and 3. Check electricity, is your battery really good? measuring 12 or 12.7 does not mean enough. Jump start with another car and see if you have a difference. If it starts change the battery. If there is no difference time to remove the starter, is either dead or a false contact (probably ground). Is not a minor job, so I would argue get a new starter before getting there, worse case you keep the spare.
2- If you don't hear anything uncover the starter solenoid, remove carpet behind back seats (pull by hand) and unscrew the metal cover. Relay number 7, in the corner is the starter relay. These are cheap and you can swap with another one to test. Get someone to turn the key with your ear close to it. If you hear no click sound when turning the key even with a new relay then there is no signal getting to the relay. You can even jump the relay out to make sure there is crank and fully rule out the starter. At this point is also good idea to confirm you have 12v in the relay socket. If you have 12v where you should , and you measure the signal that should be received or put a new relay and you hear no sound you can rule out the relay (failure point 3)
3- The clutch switch. Look at the clutch pedal up and you will see that it activates 1 or two switches. The one we are interested in is the one that gets closed when the pedal is fully depressed. Remove the cables and join them (you dont need to cut, put a piece of cable between the two terminals). If you still have no start you can rule the switch as the problem.
4- The starter switch, a bit more difficult to access but a cheap part. you can get there and jump it but given the cost for a standard replacement one, get the part.
If you ruled out the 4 failure points above which are the most common you are in more serious trouble, a broken cable, a dead ECU or the key is not being read, good luck, I think that is likely beyond what we can handle!
When you put the key first there is a reading of the code, if that doesn't match wont crank, that rarely fails and if it does is beyond what we can DIY so will leave that there. When you turn the ignition switch sends a signal (1st failure point) then at the same time you have to press the clutch which activates a switch (2nd failure point) if those are pressed and the cables are not cut (cables is another failure point but we will ignore that for now) the computer (lets assume the computer is ok as is also beyond DIY) there is a signal sent to the starter relay (3rd failure point) behind the back seats. If that relay is working the signal is sent to the starter solenoid (4th failure point) which then activates electricity to turn the starter motor. I will handle starter solenoid and starter as the same thing, there is enough work in taking out the starter to justify changing the whole thing if the solenoid fails. To diagnose the issue you start backwards.
1- Do you hear anything when you turn the key? If you hear something (unless you have uncovered the starter relay or the carpet behind the back seats, you are hearing the starter. That means some electricity is getting there, you can rule out failure points 1, 2 and 3. Check electricity, is your battery really good? measuring 12 or 12.7 does not mean enough. Jump start with another car and see if you have a difference. If it starts change the battery. If there is no difference time to remove the starter, is either dead or a false contact (probably ground). Is not a minor job, so I would argue get a new starter before getting there, worse case you keep the spare.
2- If you don't hear anything uncover the starter solenoid, remove carpet behind back seats (pull by hand) and unscrew the metal cover. Relay number 7, in the corner is the starter relay. These are cheap and you can swap with another one to test. Get someone to turn the key with your ear close to it. If you hear no click sound when turning the key even with a new relay then there is no signal getting to the relay. You can even jump the relay out to make sure there is crank and fully rule out the starter. At this point is also good idea to confirm you have 12v in the relay socket. If you have 12v where you should , and you measure the signal that should be received or put a new relay and you hear no sound you can rule out the relay (failure point 3)
3- The clutch switch. Look at the clutch pedal up and you will see that it activates 1 or two switches. The one we are interested in is the one that gets closed when the pedal is fully depressed. Remove the cables and join them (you dont need to cut, put a piece of cable between the two terminals). If you still have no start you can rule the switch as the problem.
4- The starter switch, a bit more difficult to access but a cheap part. you can get there and jump it but given the cost for a standard replacement one, get the part.
If you ruled out the 4 failure points above which are the most common you are in more serious trouble, a broken cable, a dead ECU or the key is not being read, good luck, I think that is likely beyond what we can handle!
