M030 RoW suspension
06-27-2010, 10:34 PM
#1
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M030 RoW suspension
I need 4 new tires this month which always includes a 4-wheel alignment. I finally ordered the M030 RoW suspension kit for my '99 Carrera 2 coupe. I was waiting until I needed 4 tires and the alignment so that I could save a little on the suspension kit installation by only needing one alignment instead of two by doing the tires and suspension kit at the same time.
This will actually RAISE my cars stance about an inch or so. From new, the car has had a set of TechArt lowering springs which REALLY lower the car a ton. Plus over 12 years and 56,000 mi they have settled even more. I have had to treat cigarette butts like speed bumps, and the thrill of that has finally worn off. The car still has the original stock C2 shocks/struts and the stock C2 sway bars. Now it will have a real performance oriented suspension "system" engineered specifically for this car by Porsche.
I'm also getting four Pirelli P Zero System N4's. The set of tires coming off are Pirelli P Zero System N3's. I have been using Pirelli P Zero's on this car since new (N0, then N1, then N2, then N3's) and they have been excellent at the track and OK on the road. They are not designed to give you lots of miles, but I accept that for the extra grip at the track. I do about 2-3 DE's a year, and I just got back from my annual pilgrimage to the Tail of the Dragon.
(I have tried the others - Michelin, Dunlop, BFGoodrich, Yokohama, Continental, etc., etc. Pirelli works for me, thanks).
Anyway, I figure that the thicker sway bars and firmer shocks will offset the increase in ride height and thus the center of gravity. And I won't have to repaint the chin splitters every year.
I'll let you know how all this works out. It will be a couple weeks before everything arrives.
This will actually RAISE my cars stance about an inch or so. From new, the car has had a set of TechArt lowering springs which REALLY lower the car a ton. Plus over 12 years and 56,000 mi they have settled even more. I have had to treat cigarette butts like speed bumps, and the thrill of that has finally worn off. The car still has the original stock C2 shocks/struts and the stock C2 sway bars. Now it will have a real performance oriented suspension "system" engineered specifically for this car by Porsche.
I'm also getting four Pirelli P Zero System N4's. The set of tires coming off are Pirelli P Zero System N3's. I have been using Pirelli P Zero's on this car since new (N0, then N1, then N2, then N3's) and they have been excellent at the track and OK on the road. They are not designed to give you lots of miles, but I accept that for the extra grip at the track. I do about 2-3 DE's a year, and I just got back from my annual pilgrimage to the Tail of the Dragon.
(I have tried the others - Michelin, Dunlop, BFGoodrich, Yokohama, Continental, etc., etc. Pirelli works for me, thanks).
Anyway, I figure that the thicker sway bars and firmer shocks will offset the increase in ride height and thus the center of gravity. And I won't have to repaint the chin splitters every year.
I'll let you know how all this works out. It will be a couple weeks before everything arrives.
06-29-2010, 08:23 PM
#4
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I'd love to hear how you feel about it after it's done, anyway you can get pic's during the install?
I'm thinking about doing the same thing pretty soon. My C2 cab has the stock suspension and I don't plan to track it hardcore so the PSS10 that everyone likes seems like over kill.
I'm thinking about doing the same thing pretty soon. My C2 cab has the stock suspension and I don't plan to track it hardcore so the PSS10 that everyone likes seems like over kill.
06-29-2010, 11:36 PM
#5
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I won't be able to take pics of the install unless you want to see pics of the loner car I get from Brumos while this is going on. LOL!
Up until last week I could have been there while it happened, but I started a new job this week so I will not be available to hang around while the suspension work is being done.
Hopefully I will get their loaner silver 2010 Cayman S with PDK and Sport PASM to drive that week. Everyone else in the Florida Crown Region who gets service at Brumos has had a whack at that car. My luck I'll get a Cayenne. My new tires and suspension will still feel very low after a week in a Cayenne. LOL!
Up until last week I could have been there while it happened, but I started a new job this week so I will not be available to hang around while the suspension work is being done.
Hopefully I will get their loaner silver 2010 Cayman S with PDK and Sport PASM to drive that week. Everyone else in the Florida Crown Region who gets service at Brumos has had a whack at that car. My luck I'll get a Cayenne. My new tires and suspension will still feel very low after a week in a Cayenne. LOL!
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08-17-2010, 11:02 PM
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I gotta say, you fooled me with your attention to detail with that last picture... I was getting ready to compliment you on the attention to detail until I looked at the other photos a bit closer...
I was highly impressed that the center cap crest is pointing to the valve stem on the front wheel in your last picture (as it should be) but was disappointed to find that this level of detail was not maintained on the other wheels. Hopefully your future offerings will be slightly higher caliber.
I have learned that sarcasm is not as transparent when presented in the written form as it may be in the context of speech so I hope you all understand I am joking.... The car looks great and I am interested in hearing your thoughts on the ROW30. I am sitting on a stock suspension now, and am weighing the various options for upgrading the suspension.
I was highly impressed that the center cap crest is pointing to the valve stem on the front wheel in your last picture (as it should be) but was disappointed to find that this level of detail was not maintained on the other wheels. Hopefully your future offerings will be slightly higher caliber.
I have learned that sarcasm is not as transparent when presented in the written form as it may be in the context of speech so I hope you all understand I am joking.... The car looks great and I am interested in hearing your thoughts on the ROW30. I am sitting on a stock suspension now, and am weighing the various options for upgrading the suspension.
08-21-2010, 05:15 PM
#11
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M030 RoW it is SOOOOO AWESOME!!!
Big Red is HOME! And the M030 RoW it is SOOOOO AWESOME!!!
My expression of happiness is tainted, however. My 996 was so rough and noisy before on those old worn out tires and shortie springs, and now it is so smooth and quiet and tight. Wow! But, I want to give everything a couple weeks to "settle in" before I really thrash it to find out. It is definitely visibly higher than before - somewhere between 1/2" and 3/4" (20mm?) No question about that. But of course that was exactly the goal. And yet it is very visibly still much lower than the stock Carreras and Cayman (-men? -mans?) that were sitting next to it in the service delivery area. So quiet with 4 new P Zero Rosso N4's. Car feels very tight. Not harsh. Tight. They also did four new factory drop links, new bump stops, new upper strut bushings, and a brand new proper (porcelain) hood crest. I think the new hood crest adds 20 horsepower all by itself.
I did not push it hard on the way home because the old sway bars were in a plastic bag in the back seat area, and the old struts/shocks/springs/etc were in a big heavy box in the trunk. I just wanted to "feel the force within" without throwing stuff around in the car. Tomorrow morning I'm going to drive the cloverleaf at Butler and Southside to get an early feel. Nothing drastic. I expect the new springs to settle just a bit more over the next month. And the tires need a couple weeks to scrub in a bit.
Then I will take some pics to post.
The 2009 Cayman S PDK/Sport Chrono/Sport PASM/etc loaner was a real treat to drive these past few days. There is a LOT to like about this car. And yet... I felt a sense of tension while I drove that car. It just seemed so "intent" on doing everything by itself. I felt closed in, but not as claustrophobic as a Boxster. It was like sunshine and flowers when I got back into the Carrera. And the Cayman "felt" heavy. The 996 "feels" light and happy. Silver Cayman, Guards Red Carrera? Mental illness? Totally loved the PDK, but I actually did get annoyed after a while with being in 7th gear at 47 MPH and well under 2000 rpm's all the time. I found myself going manual frequently to drop it down a couple gears. Just seems wrong to be at such low rpm's all the time. This PDK had the steering wheel buttons and that is the ONLY way to go. Paddle shifters are a joke after having these.
The gas mileage was staggering. I saw 33.5 mpg over long stretches. Big Red will get about 28-29 over that same ground. And the "city" average was about 4mpg higher than I usually get with the 996 in that same drive. PDK was nice in bumper-to-bumper.
The stock seats in my 996 have had 12 years to "adjust" to my butt, but the Cayman seats felt like they were instructing my butt to feel the way THEY wanted me to feel. And they were quite insistent about it. The 996 seats were sooooo nice to come home to.
Cayman S with PDK/Sport stuff is VERY nice. But I'm "at home" in my 996 in so many more ways. Why, I can think of about $50,000 of them right off the bat...
All up for all parts and labor for the M030 kit and install and 4 new tires and alignment - around $4,000.
My expression of happiness is tainted, however. My 996 was so rough and noisy before on those old worn out tires and shortie springs, and now it is so smooth and quiet and tight. Wow! But, I want to give everything a couple weeks to "settle in" before I really thrash it to find out. It is definitely visibly higher than before - somewhere between 1/2" and 3/4" (20mm?) No question about that. But of course that was exactly the goal. And yet it is very visibly still much lower than the stock Carreras and Cayman (-men? -mans?) that were sitting next to it in the service delivery area. So quiet with 4 new P Zero Rosso N4's. Car feels very tight. Not harsh. Tight. They also did four new factory drop links, new bump stops, new upper strut bushings, and a brand new proper (porcelain) hood crest. I think the new hood crest adds 20 horsepower all by itself.
I did not push it hard on the way home because the old sway bars were in a plastic bag in the back seat area, and the old struts/shocks/springs/etc were in a big heavy box in the trunk. I just wanted to "feel the force within" without throwing stuff around in the car. Tomorrow morning I'm going to drive the cloverleaf at Butler and Southside to get an early feel. Nothing drastic. I expect the new springs to settle just a bit more over the next month. And the tires need a couple weeks to scrub in a bit.
Then I will take some pics to post.
The 2009 Cayman S PDK/Sport Chrono/Sport PASM/etc loaner was a real treat to drive these past few days. There is a LOT to like about this car. And yet... I felt a sense of tension while I drove that car. It just seemed so "intent" on doing everything by itself. I felt closed in, but not as claustrophobic as a Boxster. It was like sunshine and flowers when I got back into the Carrera. And the Cayman "felt" heavy. The 996 "feels" light and happy. Silver Cayman, Guards Red Carrera? Mental illness? Totally loved the PDK, but I actually did get annoyed after a while with being in 7th gear at 47 MPH and well under 2000 rpm's all the time. I found myself going manual frequently to drop it down a couple gears. Just seems wrong to be at such low rpm's all the time. This PDK had the steering wheel buttons and that is the ONLY way to go. Paddle shifters are a joke after having these.
The gas mileage was staggering. I saw 33.5 mpg over long stretches. Big Red will get about 28-29 over that same ground. And the "city" average was about 4mpg higher than I usually get with the 996 in that same drive. PDK was nice in bumper-to-bumper.
The stock seats in my 996 have had 12 years to "adjust" to my butt, but the Cayman seats felt like they were instructing my butt to feel the way THEY wanted me to feel. And they were quite insistent about it. The 996 seats were sooooo nice to come home to.
Cayman S with PDK/Sport stuff is VERY nice. But I'm "at home" in my 996 in so many more ways. Why, I can think of about $50,000 of them right off the bat...
All up for all parts and labor for the M030 kit and install and 4 new tires and alignment - around $4,000.
Last edited by Thundertub; 10-30-2010 at 05:58 PM.
08-21-2010, 07:46 PM
#12
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Mark,
Good for you! I agree that the PDK transmission is really an excellent system, especially with Sport Chrono.
I have not driven a Cayman, because there is just no use for me to do so because I am tooo tall to fit comfortably in it. The shorter cockpit of the Cayman/Boxster does not allow me enough leg room, nor does it allow enough of a seat-back tilt to get comfortable.
Good for you! I agree that the PDK transmission is really an excellent system, especially with Sport Chrono.
I have not driven a Cayman, because there is just no use for me to do so because I am tooo tall to fit comfortably in it. The shorter cockpit of the Cayman/Boxster does not allow me enough leg room, nor does it allow enough of a seat-back tilt to get comfortable.
08-21-2010, 09:44 PM
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Tim, (and further hijacking my own thread)
I agree. I am not tall but I still felt short-changed on the legroom and the seat back tilt. Could have just been mental. I did not feel comfortable "throwing something in the back" like I do my Carrera. Impossible in a Boxster, doable in a Cayman. Still requires contortions. Lot's of extra headroom, though. No "bracing" on the sunroof tracks with my helmet (my 996) if I had a Cayman at the track (judged a convenience. LOL!)
The window sills are much higher up my body, but I did not feel more secure in side G's than in my 996. Would definitely order the sport seats if I got one of these.
I would be more tempted to want to do the lower console delete in a Cayman if it were even possible. My right knee was even harder on the side of the console than in my 996. I keep the lower console on my 996 because I love the two cubbies there for storage. The Cayman has one, but it is very low and very deep. Almost coudn't get my cellphone out of it. In both cars I used the ashtray to hold the cellphone at easy reach. In neither car is that a secure place to put it under hard braking.
The storage below the Cayman console armrest was tiny compared to the 996. But the Cayman does have a gapingly large glove box (my '99 has none) and nice deep door armrest storage compartments. Better for storing your owners manual and other books, than my 996.
The accelleration and superb balance of the Cayman S PDK is undeniable. It is just plain wicked quick out of the hole and at any time there after. I feel that with practice it would easily demolish my 996 at Roebling Road. Even with my new suspension and tires.
I will be interested to revisit and test drive another one when the Cayman Club Sport arrives next year (Cayman version of the Boxster Spyder). Of course the 99X Carrera will also be making upgrades then as well, and the Cayman will still be "kept in its place."
I agree. I am not tall but I still felt short-changed on the legroom and the seat back tilt. Could have just been mental. I did not feel comfortable "throwing something in the back" like I do my Carrera. Impossible in a Boxster, doable in a Cayman. Still requires contortions. Lot's of extra headroom, though. No "bracing" on the sunroof tracks with my helmet (my 996) if I had a Cayman at the track (judged a convenience. LOL!)
The window sills are much higher up my body, but I did not feel more secure in side G's than in my 996. Would definitely order the sport seats if I got one of these.
I would be more tempted to want to do the lower console delete in a Cayman if it were even possible. My right knee was even harder on the side of the console than in my 996. I keep the lower console on my 996 because I love the two cubbies there for storage. The Cayman has one, but it is very low and very deep. Almost coudn't get my cellphone out of it. In both cars I used the ashtray to hold the cellphone at easy reach. In neither car is that a secure place to put it under hard braking.
The storage below the Cayman console armrest was tiny compared to the 996. But the Cayman does have a gapingly large glove box (my '99 has none) and nice deep door armrest storage compartments. Better for storing your owners manual and other books, than my 996.
The accelleration and superb balance of the Cayman S PDK is undeniable. It is just plain wicked quick out of the hole and at any time there after. I feel that with practice it would easily demolish my 996 at Roebling Road. Even with my new suspension and tires.
I will be interested to revisit and test drive another one when the Cayman Club Sport arrives next year (Cayman version of the Boxster Spyder). Of course the 99X Carrera will also be making upgrades then as well, and the Cayman will still be "kept in its place."
08-21-2010, 10:25 PM
#14
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haha Carrera ST...just saw that.
08-22-2010, 09:04 PM
#15
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I gotta say, you fooled me with your attention to detail with that last picture... I was getting ready to compliment you on the attention to detail until I looked at the other photos a bit closer...
I was highly impressed that the center cap crest is pointing to the valve stem on the front wheel in your last picture (as it should be) but was disappointed to find that this level of detail was not maintained on the other wheels. Hopefully your future offerings will be slightly higher caliber.
I was highly impressed that the center cap crest is pointing to the valve stem on the front wheel in your last picture (as it should be) but was disappointed to find that this level of detail was not maintained on the other wheels. Hopefully your future offerings will be slightly higher caliber.
DDC4S,
I was just rereading this whole thread and realized that for some unknown reason I had not paid close enough attention to your comment before. Could have been the stress of the past few weeks since my dad passed away on August 5th. I have no other excuse. I meant no harm in "ignoring" your post. I really didn't read it closely enough until just now, and I truly appologize. Really. I'm normally so thrilled when ANYBODY responds to my threads that I often memorize them!
I am embarassed to have had the cap cover flaw discovered! I am normally not this sloppy. In fact I'm downright **** when it comes to stuff like this. I even own the weird little tweezer wrench that removes them, and I keep it in the console. Your comment caused me to jump up and run outside immediately to see if Brumos had put the caps on correctly when they did the tires this week. Sure enough, they are ALL pointing perfectly at their valve stems. Phew!
I am at a loss to explain my other three caps being off point. The photos were taken three years ago at Roebling Road, on a Sunday morning, Day Two of a DE weekend. Could this have been the beginning of the dreaded 996 Cap Cover Creep???!!!
Yet another early 996 engineering failure?????In any case, I will now keep a closer eye on them at the next DE.
Man, I still can't believe that I didn't catch that.
Do we have one of those E-motes for EMBARRASSED?
Last edited by Thundertub; 08-22-2010 at 09:34 PM.