I have an EVO that was on my car when I bought it - I'm also skeptical of HP claims, but I do like the noise that it makes, so in the end the performance claims are a moot point to me.... now if I had a stock intake and contemplating putting the CAI on, then I probably would find other ways to make noise.

 

Tim, I always forget about the most important piece of data one could use for this argument; the carrera power kit!!!

Spot on.

 

I can't tell if this was a joke, so I apologize if I missed the tone. How is the fact that Porsche is willing to sell you something for $17000 validation that you can't achieve similar results for less? Does a supercharger setup cost the same for the same power gain? Does a $5,000 PSE add the same amount of power as a $1000 exhaust setup or for that matter at $500 setup?

 

Did you see in the kit it includes heads? Or maybe you saw it has a redesigned intake?

 

The problem with the X51 argument is that it presupposes all you're getting is a peak horsepower number. The X51 kit doesn't create one great big peak power moment that you can brag about, which a lot of bolt on mods do. It...

- Gives you more power across the full rpm range.
- Does so in a way that keeps the engine emissions and noise law compliant.
- Does so in a way that does not compromise reliability or durability of other components or affect warranty-ability (remember, this kit was sold for new cars).
- Does so at a huge expense, which includes I'm sure some generous margins for Porsche.

Lots of bolt on mods could very well give you the same peak power bragging rights. But they'll...

- Give it to you in a less usable way, such as a spike near the redline.
- Give it to you in a way that makes the car loud and possibly less efficient.
- Give it to you with risk of, say, an air supply that's not as clean as the manufacturer's standards dictate and could, over the service life of the car, compromise other components.
- Give it to you cheap.

Peak power is a virtually meaningless number to the experience of driving a car, so it's a lousy way to compare mods, IMHO. And for sure, the horsepower-per-dollar argument is specious. If that's what really counted, we'd all be driving Corvettes.

 

yea, that should be easy for you

 

So should I be running 0W-40 mobil 1 or 75w-90 valvoline?

 

Well said!

And I couldn't agree more, big (peak) numbers on the dyno don't count in the real world.

 

Has anyone tried to come up with a better unit measurement? Thinking about it, you could do an area under the curve number, based on say 2000 rpm to redline (or an arbitrary number for modifications that raise redline) measured every X rpm.

That would give a very useful idea of how much a power mod would actually improve the driving experience, even if it made no gains, or even a loss at the peak.

 

Bruce, I'm lost? So the filter gives you peak numbers but you say that, that is not important in the "overall package" which I agree.


So........what is the point????

Is it just for individualism?

 

BTW, you cannot get a peak in HP #'s without having a gain in torque, this is an impossibility.

Fact: torque is measured by a dyno, HP is calculated from torque measured.

 

raising the rpm while keeping the torque flat will increase the horsepower, this most likely won't happen as peak torque usually occurs at a much lower rpm and after it peaks will fall.

 

Flat torque is a metaphor. You cannot raise hp without raising torque, hp is calculated from torque.

To raise you RPM requires extending the torque to a higher RPM.

So, even though torque appears to be dwindling, it is the multiplier of RPM raising HP.

For instance, F1 engines make what, 1500hp? They still make gobs of torque, just at a really high RPM. I believe I read something like 800ft lbs. Not sure of time frame I read this.

It is all relative. HP comes simply calculated from torque.

 

Agree!

 

I was speaking hypothetically, only in order to make the point that there are lots of ways to generate a higher peak HP number, but they aren't all equal. I just wanted to take apart the X51 argument, because I think it oversimplifies the debate. Sorry if I confused things.

As for what the point is, I can only answer for myself: I enjoy the way the car drives with my EVOMS intake, when combined with exhaust and flash. The sound makes the car more involving to drive, and it feels quicker above 4500 rpm. I can't actually a) Parse out what contribution the CAI makes to that, or b) Tell you whether it is, in fact, quicker. That was kind of my point with the long-winded post from yesterday... tuning is about personalizing.