teleman

I am starting this thread on behalf of a friend of mine who owns a '99 C2 very similar to mine. Luckily (knock on wood) I have had zero issues with mine, but hers has been a nightmare.

First off, I strongly suggested getting a PPI but she chose not to get one. Obviously that was a big mistake. Please, no PPI sermons.

1999 C2 with 57,000 miles purchased through eBay auction in 12/08 for $22,500.

7/09 - 60,000 miles. She noticed oil leak under car and brought to Porsche dealership.

From invoice:
Check for oil leak and advise. found rear main seal leaking and oil in coolant tank. R&I oil pan to pressurize system, found water leaking from oil sump area. Blown head gasket(s). R&I Engine/Trans, recouple trans, clutch and flywheel to replace rear main and intermediate shaft seal. Found clutch worn to limit and replaced at same time. Tear down engine to replace l/r bank cyl head gaskets. Replace oil cooler and oil seperator. Road test 20 mi. ok.

Total amount paid for repairs above: $6,101.59

1/10 - 62,400 miles. Oil light came on after fueling and stayed on for about 10 seconds, never came back on. Drove home 2.5 miles, checked oil, barely anything on the dipstick and a "tan froth" leaking next to coolant reservoir, obviously oil/coolant mixture. No CEL or any other warning lights illuminated on dash. Took back to Porsche dealership. They are now saying it may have a cracked block and needs a new engine. Their estimate: $16,989 for engine, labor, tax.

Please advise as to what she might do next.
Thanks.

ivangene

talk to the manager and ask them why she just spent $6k on it with thier diagnosis being head gasket and now the same problems = new motor ?

I mean I would play a little dumb and pissed at the same time...

If the motor is shot and she needs a new one... OK thats a huge problem, but at the same time they just sank $6k worth of work into the same motor 2500 miles ago ??? If i knew I would get 2500 miles from a $6100 bill I would be raging pissed (even though I know they cannot see the future)

second, get another opinion on the car - make sure the diagnosis is right

call Jake Raby

talk to Dharn55 - he has been down that road too

GL and I am not sure a PPI would have found this since she drove it 8 months before it had the problem and it is a fairly low mile 99'

Pac996

I know I'm being a jerk but her being a lady might of helped things get weird. I was under the impression the porsche head gaskets were bullet proof to leaking almost. I'd think a shop would of looked for another cause for flaws that cause the water to oil to leaking. Not that the shop would be into magnafluxing everything that gets torn down but I'd think a simple looking over th engine could of seen the problem. I'd even think somebody if a long time mechanic would of seen something like a good head gasket and though hmmmm the leak is probably not the gasket and advised the shop forman. All together I don't know. But I do know some might turn around and press the shop to at least deduct the previous billing of head gasket repair from any other billing to deal with the problem. Once again I don't know but I do know she got a rotten deal in the buy it seems. I think the previous owner knew there was a problem probably through a leak down test.

jrgordonsenior

First off if the motor runs then it's most likely the heads or head gaskets. Since they replaced both head gaskets 2,500 mile ago I'm guessing they really want her to buy a new motor rather than tear it down. They obviously have a conflict of interest in diagnosing the motor and for that reason alone I'm not sure I'd trust them to do the teardown.

If a head's cracked (common), one could argue it probably had already developed that crack albeit smaller 2,500 miles ago and they just missed it. You could also argue they should have taken those heads apart then to assure they were OK since it had 60k miles and was 10 years old and had just suffered a blown a head gasket or 2....

I don't envy her position, but she shoudl get pissed and insist on talking to a regional service manager BEFORE they touch her car....

ivangene

Good point on the head leak and not the head gasket leak - yea, if it is the head then clearly they missed the repair with the last gouging

teleman

Your insight and knowledge is very much appreciated. I have forwarded these replies to her. Her brother-in-law is going in to the dealership on Monday to talk to them. Thanks again.

Shark Attack

I am so sorry. I thank god I dont use the dealer. Indy's or DIY for me.

sehorntx

As stated before its never a head gasket with these engines. Shameful the dealership didnt see the most likely crack in the cylinder head. I have my 99 C2 engine out in my garage for intermix and found BOTH heads cracked. Awaiting return of 2nd head from machine shop before reassembly.
Dealers know how to replace engines, unclear why this one would assume intermix is gasket?

Dharn55

I am curious what they meant by pressurizing a system after removing the oil pan. Did they pressuize the coolant side or the oil side? And why did they replace the oil cooler and AOS? Did they test the oil cooler to see if it was leaking? Was there evidence that the AOS was bad?

All seems kind of fishy to me. Particlularly when they diagnosed it as a failed head gasket, and then replaced the headgasket on both side. Sound to me that they really did not have a clue what they were doing.

Sehorntx is right, the head gasket almost never fail. But if one did it should have be obvious, same marking on the head from the leak. Intermix are usually caused by either a cracked cylinder of a cracked head, although I have heard of a failed oil cooler. If the heads were removed they should have been carefully examined for cracks. The cracks are usually found at the inner exhaust valve spring seat on cylinder #1, or less commonly on cylinder #6. the cracks tend to run down the sparkplug tubes. I will post some pictures, but they are on a different computer so I can't do it right now.

The good news is that if it is a cracked head, and the car has not been driven too much with the intermixed oil it can be fixed. I did mine and it is running great. the cost to repair the head and get a valve job on one side is about $500. Another $500-$1,000 in parts plus labor for the work, maybe another $1,500-$2,000. You can also get a new head for about $2,800. Be careful with trying to find a used head, most that I looked at were cracked in the same spot. that is why I had mine fixed. Did all the labor other than fixing the cracked head itself and the valve job.

You could ask the mechanic to take out the sparkplug tubes, particularly on #1 and #6 and ook for the cracks before they drop the engine, you may be able to see a crack, try some dye.

teleman

Just FYI, she is down in Ft. Worth, TX and I live in ND so I'm assisting from a distance. Her brother-in-law lives nearby and is going into the dealership on Monday to talk with them. Will post updates here when I hear back from them.

Macster

Your not immune from incompetence. A Boxster owner posted of taking his car in for RMS and when he got call from indy it was to tell him the Tip -- which was working perfectly before he took car in -- was no longer working.

Either Tip damaged during installation or shop forgot to fill Tip with fluid after reinstall and upon starting engine Tip damaged cause of lack of oil.

Indy did take, sort of I think the wording was, responsibility for the non-functioning Tip and the shop and car owner are splitting the cost of a used Tip.

Sincerely,

Macster.

jrgordonsenior

You need to tell us which dealership? There are many Rennlisters in the Dalls/FW area that have connections to certain dealerships. Do tell....

teleman

Autobahn Motorcar Group

leftlane

I know you need to work with the dealer to some degree here since they might have screwed up, but if you can get the car over to RUF I think you'd be better off. If you definitely need to get the motor replaced, have RUF do it instead unless the dealer is eating some/all of the cost.

bxtech

I just read through this thread. Sorry to hear about the situation! I agree........since the previous work was recently done AND it could lean towards a misdiagnosis, I would try to negotiate with the dealer (If she decides to have it repaired). Plus on top of it all......the amount of the previous repair was a considerable amount! Those guys at the dealer have GOT to do something for her in a situation like this! $6100 for 2500 miles is some expensive mileage!

Good luck. Please let us know what happens. I would be curious of the outcome.