Van

I would do those items in this order: 1, 3, 2.

Do GT3 seats first (I think they're just fine for a daily driver) and a harness bar and harnesses. Not only is it a safety thing, but your car control abilities will go up since you no longer need to "hold" yourself in the seat by bracing your knees and elbows against the door/center console.

Then, upgrade to good brake pads. If you like, you can do fancier rotors, too - they might last longer between replacements, but they'll also cost more money. What we want to achieve with a track brake setup is a setup where you'll never experience brake fade, the grip will be strong and the modulation will be excellent.

And, after you've done those 2 things, then I'd focus on the suspension. I have the X74 and think it's really good. I've also heard good things about the PSS10. The addition of GT3 adjustable sway bars to either one is probably also good.

All the rest is just seat time. Drive in the rain. Drive in the dry. Try new tracks. Get more instruction.

racer

Do you use the back seat? Then race seats/ GT3 seats will render that useless. Swapping seats for the few events/year becomes a real PITA as well. A rollbar/harness bar doesn't help either.

How many total track days have you done?

Going to R comps, without an aggressive alignment, you will begin to chew up the outside shoulders. You will want to find more negative camber to preserve your tires.

Safety is a slippery slope.. Once race seats and harnesses go in, the arguement for a rollbar/cage comes into play. That becomes big money. The counter argument is, is it safe to drive such a car, particularly with a cage, on the street?

quickxotica

+1 on Van's advice: 1) Safety: seats & bolt-in roll bar (or harness bar if you'll need to remove it between events), HANS device, fire suit, etc, then 2) X74 suspension package & GT3 (street) front lower control arms, then 3) better Pagid pads (RS14 is my fave), 4) X51 oil pan.

Then stop! Do much more and you'll kill your street-usability entirely.

RamVA

I would do suspension before R-comps.

himself

LOL. Way to read the thread!

Post #1: lol Probably lack of coffee!

-td

RamVA

I read it.

1 - Someone's going to look up this thread in the future
2 - That's the way I feel, and
3 - I think the OP should buy suspension.

I drink plenty of coffee.

Rob996

Thanks for all your input, and thoughtful recomendations to my post...
I have had many conversations with my indy mechanic regarding the actual costs and perceived benefits and advantages of each upgrade. He did mention one extra addon item that has'nt been mentioned in this post, Install Mode camber plates at the same time as the PSS10's minimum in the front, since the OE rubber suspenion mounts are probably shot, and dont give you the same turn in and steering response.
If the goal is to maintain a balance between a car that performs well on and off the track, and also retain some value and appeal in re-selling the car. Usually the more a car is modified for track, you reduce the amount of potential buyers, and hinder the price you will get. I'm not selling now, but my bucketlist includes a move up to a GT3 .
Thanks again to all of you..

PS, i love the headlights on my 996

Darren

Yup, good suggestion (sperical upper strut mount/aka camber plate), but only if you're really pushing hard on the track. The spherical bearings on the camber plates will wear out after 5-10,000 miles of normal driving on the street. It's an added cost and hassle, and like everything else, it's a trade off. The bearings themselves are $40 or so each, maybe 2 hours shop time to remove them and press in new bearings. Then you'd need to realign the car also. Figure that is a $500 bill every 10,000 miles.

Many people do well with the rubber upper mounts. I was running 265/315 Michelins and driving in the instructor group and the rubber would rip out after a couple of events (and then it starts rattling), so they didn't work so well for me. With smaller tires or driving slower, they would last longer.

quickxotica

For 60% street use, I would avoid all-metal upper strut mounts. Too crashy/loud for my taste with the bad roads we have around here. If you go X74 instead of PSS10, the X74 come pre-asembled with fresh upper mounts, matching bumpstops, etc. It's all plug-and-play. Disadvantages of X74 are that they're not threaded so you can't really corner-balance the car, and you'll need to combine them with GT3 front lower control arms to get enough negative camber. But as far as a ride/handling compormise for your usage pattern, X74 would be great. And as a side benefit, since the shocks aren't adjustable, you'll always know they're perfectly matched to the springs! :-)

Darren

I disagree -- the all-metal (spherical) upper strut mounts are not crashy/loud for the street as long as you don't have your struts set to ultra stiff. IMHO the PSS9/10 suspension rides BETTER on the street with the spherical upper mounts than the stock suspension does. The stock suspension is CRAP. The PSS9/10 suspension handles the oscillations much better (it's a much better damper).

I don't understand changing the struts if you can't adjust the ride height/corner balance.

Also, the PSS suspension has valving that is perfectly matched to the springs, on all settings, which is sort of the point of the thing. You need to adjust them for conditions not for the spring rate.

Rob996

The indy actually said he would not install the Bilsteins if i didnt do the upper mounts at the same time, as he felt it was onlt half the solution, although said he would accept leaving the OE rear mounts. I had serious concerns of going with solid mounts, especially with the crappy roads we have, and the sound of metal on metal makes me feel like my filings in my teeth will fall out before getting home.

John, I had done some research into the X-73 suspension, and looked like a good option until it came time to understanding the shocks and sway bars as separate components, and how sway bars can mask the performance of the shocks in locking each side together. There was also the question of corner balancing, and adjustability. Ride height on my 996 drives me a little crazy, as i find the car way too high especially in the front, and the PSS help remedy that issue. Although i'm still concerned about metal suspension mounts, it seems counter-intuative.

My indy hasnt steered me wrong yet, and will take the leap of faith.

Darren

Hopefully your mechanic knows who pays him, otherwise you probably need a different one. Everything is a compromise, it's your compromise. Ask him to guarantee that the spherical bearings won't fail in 10,000 miles. Whether you use camber plates or the stock mounts, either one will have durability issues -- sphericals fail on the street, the rubber stock mount will fail on the track (eventually). Again unless you are a really fast driver in the fastest groups, you'll probably be fine with the rubber mounts until you get that fast

I'm not sure your point about the shocks and sway bars working differently on the X-73 suspension. All components in any suspension need to be sized appropriately to work together. That isn't different from one package to another.

Rob996

Darren, You were absolutely correct about the limited lifespan of the spherical bearings, and my Indy confirmed that they will need to be replaced periodically depending on use and wear, and had no willingness to guarentee these bearings. Since i use the car on the street and track either stock mounts or camber plates will fail eventually, but the rubber will be more comfortable and quiet until i get faster on the track. I am running either Blue or Black run groups depending on the PCA region. My last event was at WGI October 12-13th in Black with NiagaraPCA. From the clolr of the leaves in your picture it looks like you were there at the same time.
Thanks again for your advice.

quickxotica

Darren - agreed that the stock suspension sucks. When I changed mine to new X74 parts it was a massive improvement.
Rob - I was upfront about the limitations of the X74/X73 kits. They are not anywhere near as adjustable as a threaded-body coilover setup, obviously. I chose X74 in part because I wanted a factory-approved suspension rather than aftermarket. I've done aftermarket coil-overs before (not PSS9/10 stuff, but anyway I wanted a set-it-and-forget it suspension this time). But let me just add one more thing: if you hate the high stock ride height, rest assured that X74 is plenty low enough. I'm at 25.5 inches from floor to top center of wheel arch, F&R. So that single criteria probably shouldn't factor into your choice between the two alternatives. Both will get you low enough. Other factors already mentioned by others are more important.
Good luck.

AudiOn19s

IDK. While I won't argue the fact that the bearings will wear out over time, the OEM GT3 mouts are on all street driven GT3's, many having much more than 10k miles and you never hear complaints about them wearing out or making noise. Never had an issue with noise with the GT3 monoballs on my 996 but they didn't have that many miles on them.

I've had a set of ground control Monoball camber plates on my M3 for about 17K miles with no sounds from them.

I think the quality of the bearing and build quality of the plate can have a big effect here. I had Schnell camber plates on my 996 and they started to make noises after 100 miles and I got pissed and took them off.

Andy

p.s. I've got a set of GT3 monoballs sitting in my basement if anyone is interested.