Rob996

Hi Everyone,

My first DE was 3 years ago, and from the first day i know i was completely addicted!! I have a beautiful 2001 996 C4, seal grey with full leather black interior with about 35k Miles. At my second DE event the engine had a catastrophic failure, with white smoke blowing over 100 feet up in the air..

That didn't stop my passion for sport, and paid $18k for a new engine installed, and 2 weeks later was at Watkins glen with a huge smile on my face.

I have since bought a set of BBS wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport Cups (wow what a difference over street rubber. Had the car aligned with negative 1.25 camber all around, and installed Pagid yellows on all four brakes. Talk about a different driving experience, these small changes made a huge impact on the track. After another DE event the baffles in the stock mufflers were finished, and what a perfect excuse to install new fabspeed mufflers..
For anyone that feels their Porsches sound great with stock exhaust, " you havent heard nottin yet" The sound difference even makes you love your car more than ever...

Now for the rub... I would really appreciate your advice and thoughts on the next logical and intelligent modifications? I do use the car as a summer daily driver.


1. Race seats with five point harness. that i will use only for DE events

2. Suspension upgrade, Bilstein PSS10, new antisway bars with drop and toe links. (open to other suspension brands besides bilstein) Ive heard and read mixed reviews about them.

3. All four rotors have spider cracks, and will need to be replaced shortly, should i go for the Performance Friction dimple 2 piece rotors, or just keep buying the OE or Zimmermann cheaper rotors, as the wear pretty fast with the Pagid pads.


My next event is on Monday and Tuesday at WGI, and I go sleep dreaming about the best lines around the track...

Any comments and thoughts will be most appreciated?

Thanks for your time

ivangene

what is your current suspension? (if US standard, get rid of it) - if ROW M030 or better, get the seats, stick with stock breaks for now -

my .02

Welcome and post some pics of the car or face the wrath of comments to follow


btw why would you change seats just for DE... I have fairly aggessive seats and drive my car to work over 50% of the time - I love the seats and can no longer stand to sit in the stock seats, even just for a short trip

smackboy1

Me personally, the best thing I ever did for the track and autocross was to get Euro GT3 seats and harnesses. Being held in the seat instead of sliding around on top of it makes it so much easier to sense the car and control it.

BTW, get 6 point harnesses, your ***** will thank you.

Darren

Always do safety first

himself

From personal experience (and many will attest) trying to make a street car go fast on the track is very expensive. With the first few upgrades you get a decent return on your money (in terms of lap times), but after that, you are chasing tenths of a second per thousand dollars.

Since you are already running R-compound tires, the next logical upgrade in terms of performance is suspension. Getting a one-way adjustable setup (like PSS9/10) will be sufficient for a street going car. Here is a list of things, which are close to the order you will probably get them

• PSS9/10
• GT3 sway bars (HR work also)
• Adjustable drop links (you will want tarret modified perch if you use GT3 front sway)
• X51 Oil pan
• GT3 lower control arms - front (more camber)
• Aggressive brakes pads (RS19/29 are good, but Pagid and PFC make more aggressive pads)
• Motul 660 or Castrol SRF
• Slotted rotors - PFC are the only ones that fit, and work great
• GT3 brake ducts
• GT3 brake liners
• SS brake lines
• Rear toe links
• 3rd radiator - cooling
• LWFW - revving
• Underdrive pulley - when you start boiling your power steering fluid, it's time

Somewhere in there you will get a data logger, in car camera setup, and another set (or two) of wheels. Don't forget a more aggressive alignment at some point. And then you will can start chasing expensive upgrades for minimal gains.

Also, you should not put performance upgrades and safety in the same category. You need proper seats, roll over protection, harnesses, HANS, and fire protection (suit, extinguisher). If you have to pick what to get first, go safety first.

With all that being said, and knowing what I know, I seriously recommend you consider getting a dedicated track car. A spec Boxster, E-class racer, or even spec miata can be had for about the same cost as upgrading and maintaining a street car. If you can afford it, a GT3 is a great tool as well. The 996 GT3 has come down in price in the last year or so, and there are great deals to be had.

If you could only pick one performance upgrade, a new suspension will be your best bet. But don't skimp on safety!

-td

AllanJ

After safety I'd pick a driving coach.

$0.02

RamVA

You need to tell us how much track driving and how much street driving you'll plan to do.

If it's a modest amount of the former and a lot of the latter, then I would do the PSS10s, harnesses/harness bar, modify your seats, and a rear sway bar.

If it's a good amount of track and occasional street use (where I am) then get bars at both ends and definitely get a stiffer coilover than the Bilsteins, with camber plates. I have JICs, but you can spend a lot more money than that. If you don't need the backseat then get a roll bar, and get proper seats (GT3). X51 oil pan, third radiator, data logger.

If it's more than that follow himself's order, but get something harder core than Bilsteins. Just bear in mind that this is where the bang-for-buck starts to get real thin.

redridge

+1 on what himself said....

suspension, suspension.... and even more suspension.... and seat time is everything.

for daily driving.... pss10, H&R ARB (for c4) for starters. Seats with harness/bar is not easily removed even on an annual basis.... it gets old.

BillJ

Start with safety and remember that you need harness bar with those seats as well. Get the OEM rotors, zimmermans crack and fail all the time with track use. Have seen several not even last past one weekend of use.

Seat time is the best go-fast part with good coaching. For the suspension there is good advice here but remember the more intense you go (remote motons or JICs for example) the less you will like your street experience. Whatever works for YOU will be your answer. Slope is quite slippery but man the water at the bottom is fiiiiiiine

jumper5836

I believe you need to learn to drive the car stock first with street tires.

DE is not about doing faster laps then others. It about getting to know your car and driving it within its limits. Even stock these cars have higher limits then most of us can even attain.

Learning on a track oriented car allows you to go faster right away and then cover up the mistakes because the tires have more grip. Your bypassing an important step to learn control even though it is at slower speeds and longer lap times.

Sure the car is faster with the modifications and you can get better laps time because its even easier to drive at your limit. That doesn't make you a better driver. It just means you have the advantage of a car that has higher limits.

Rob996

Thanks so much for great feeback!! You all raise some good food for thought, and also the laws of diminishing return come into play after the high gain modifications are done, as mentioned by Himself.

Some more details to some of your questions.
60% street and 40% track,
Im running in either Black or Blue run groups depending on which PCA club[IMG]
The car has a stock US Suspension, high with lots of roll..

Its seems the majority agree with suspension and race seats with harness and belts as the logical next step. I do admit that i find myself holding on to the sterring wheel a little to tightly so i stay in my seat, especially after i installed the Rcompounds.

I did hear anyone mention flashing the ecu to re-map the engine.


The modifications: 1. R Compound Tires (MPSC)
2. Padig Yellow pags all around
3. Fabspeed exhaust
4. negavitve camber is US stock suspension


Thanks very much again..

Rob996

Jumper5836 you bring up some good points,and agree with you.. First order of business is learning to drive on track, and then learning the car. A good story i share with friends; when i started i couldnt beleive how hard it was to be smooth, and how fast i was going, only to tell them the following year i was driving even faster on a very wet track in the rain.. Driving on a wet track helps you really understand the limits of your car at a slower speed, and how it will let go and slide.. These P-cars are much better than most drivers for the first number of events, which could be years depending how quickly you can learn..
I spent 2 years doing DE events with the car completely stock before switiching to R-compound tires and Padig pads.. Plus a motor...

All that being said, as your skills improve you can really appreciate the modifications to the car, and you feel the difference at higher speeds..

jyoteen

how many track events have you done? The car is waaaaaaay more capable in stock form so I'd upgrade the driver first. When you reach the absolute limit of the car in stock form, then I'd start changing things, one at a time (brakes first, then tires, then suspension, then etc, etc).

I'm not a fan of installing any sort of harness without a roll bar/cage of some sort and DEFINITELY no fixed back seats.

jumper5836

Cool, I would suggest though now learn to car with the R-compounds and then start with the suspension next season or when your used to the new tires and the new capabilities.

007DT

1. (Safety First) Go with Seats Harness (6point) HANS Device. Either a Bolt in Roll Bar.. Or Harness Bar.

2. Then PSS10's. Good set-up for street/DE usage.

3. Coach...

FYI. Others said it but use OEM Rotors over Zimmermann. OEM holes are Cast into the rotor as opposed to the drilled Zimmerman. Result is you may get spider cracking which is OK on OEM so long as the crack(s) do not go from hole to hole. Zimmermans are not good rotors for track use.

This set-up should still allow a streetable car and a great DE tool.