Tippy

Yeah, makes sense like '99 said about the coating.

Torontoworker

It's a course called 'Know your Porsche' put on by a local Community Collage - six weeks 3 hours each week, lift time, tools (no parts of course). You are shown how to do inspections, service work such as oil changes, brake jobs, tune up's etc. Last wed night one of the guys had a big issue with his starter motor so he bought a starter for his 85 Carrera and he and another student had it installed inside of two hours. Another fellow with a Boxter wanted to bleed/change his brake fluilds and was working on that.

Next week I'm bringing oil and a filter to do a change and may try to do a full brake job before the course is over. They go through one item for the first half hour or so - this week was fluids. Learned something I didn't know such as unlike a lot of domestic cars - the power steering fuild is NOT ATF as like others but is specific to Porsche and if you ever use ATF fluid in a P car it will pretty much kill the power steering after a bit of time. Of course there is always the shop safety briefing such as proper ways to use the different lifts etc.

For $185.00 - the use of a lift alone to do work on your car and have a fellow P car student to help out and a tech to tell you when your screwing up is worth the money alone. I was able to sort the misfire and CEL issue and clear it so that would have cost me way more then this at a dealer then course fee I paid right there.

Plus it's entertaining as hell as you get to meet other P car owners and swap stories. It was a real mixture of cars, such as two 944's, a 911, two 993's, my 996 and two 998's. A couple of the guys were 'inbetween' cars and wanted to learn stuff anyway so they were running around between cars helping where they could which was great. One guy was telling us how he had made a deal to buy a Boxster and the indy dealer farmed out the clean air check to another company and something went t*t's up and they melted part of the bumper around the exhaust pipe during the test !!! Thankfully he hadn't handed over the money and he was able to back out of the deal.

The instructor is from a local dealer and the schools instructor who owns a 996 is head of the schools auto dept.

I will ask about the use of anti-seaze on plugs next week and see what they say. I've read up on the Porsche notice as well as other links and every one of them says it is for a different reason, ie, fear of too easy over torque to the compound getting inside the cly somehow, (I guess if you go crazy with the stuff) and harming the engine and interfering with the transfer of spark energy plus causing global warming and melting of the ice caps...

Funny story: I'm trying to cure my misfire (big picture) and one of the guys standing beside me says I *need* to remove the wheel centers and put them back on with the crest pointed toward each valve stem. I looked at him waiting for the smirk and the punchline and he was serious. Like wow. I have a hard enough time keeping my car clean and running ok to worry about wheel caps... Sorry about the long reply.

flyingpenguin

IIRC number 5 and 6 plugs are easily accessible. Don't be fooled by thinking that the plugs at the back of the engine (ie. front of the car) are as easy as these ones.

There are good DIY's on this site though, so nothing undoable.

Just a word of caution.

JP

Tippy

Remove the cans and the plugs are easy as cake to remove and replace

ivangene

IIRC Cory "dissimillar" metals DONT require anti-sieze.... it is only for "simillar" metals

ie, stainless WILL stick to stainless but NOT if you change series and stainless will corrode aluminum thru electrolosis (trust me on this one) - but I never had an issue with coated or steel into aluminum...

What are plug threads made of (and they are into aluminum right?)

1999Porsche911

They are coated with zinc which will not seize to alluminum or iron.

cardsrule

wow i would love to teach that class (or do anything with pcars right now) Just to add on the center cap the wheel lock AND the valve stem should be in line

salayc

And if Porsche would just reverse that mounting bolt, the cans would be easy a cake to remove too.

ivangene

That was my guess, but wasnt sure - then if Zinc goes into aluminum, no anti-seize needed...
the only time I have had coated parts stick was when the coating was too thick or it was poorly (un-clean) adheared to the surface area or the pitch of the threads. If the coating is clean and smooth, it will be OK... if NOT then anti-seize wont help as the parts "mash" together and deform the surfaces of the weaker material (aluminum in this case)

Torontoworker

Update as promised:

So I asked the 'why' behind his using anti seize on plugs: The answer was 'you try removing plugs that have been in place for too many miles and see how easy it is to remove them without pulling out the steel heilcoils along with the plug'! He said he has seen a couple of customer cars where *someone* has screwed up while changing plugs and buggered the job up. We have a tech coming in from an indy shop next week so I'll ask him the same question (discreetly ) to see if I get the same answer.

On a side note: Did my first oil change on a P car and it was a snap! In fact the easiest I've ever done on any car and it won't be my last. The only issue I had (self caused) was spilling oil out of the oil fill tube on the 1st bottle poured in! Damn! It came back out the side slots as it 'backed up' when I poured it in too fast. Lession learned on that one. But man, what a s**t load of oil to pour in! Couldn't find the 4L containers of oil and had to buy them in 1L bottles (Quarts kinda for you 'southerners') instead. Had them all stacked up in a recycle box in the boot up front and next time I'm going to do some hunting around ahead of time to find out who got shipped the 4L jugs.

Next week: thinking about brakes... Bit of a sticker shock up here as the parts at a stealer are north of $1500Can (tax incl) for 4 oem rotors and 4 sets of oem pads. Might just do the front now (car off the road in a month) and then the rears in the spring. I watched a guy do the front set on his boxster last night and they are a snap to do. He put Zim's on which were $200 cheaper (for the pair) then Porsche brand. Here's an interesting thing: He bought Porsche brand oem pads which came in a Porsche brand box but the brand on the pad's was textar yet the used pad's he pulled off were Brembo, (first brake job on this car he has owned since new). So oem supplier's must change every so often at Porsche.

Pelican won't ship free up here and between that and UPS, duty, taxes and broker fees it isn't worth the trouble.

Anyone have experiance with Zimmerman and are they good value without sacrificing too much?

soverystout

Aren't zimmerman one of the factory OEM suppliers for our brake rotors?
I wouldn't buy any Porsche boxed products unless they came from Sunset Porsche. (Renntech members get parts for dealer cost plus 15% handling fee and you have to pay shipping).

Other than Sunset, I would find who the OEM supplier was and their part # and buy that instead. The Porsche name on the box adds 30% minimum to the price.

Tippy

Ed, you confused the hell out of me.

Disimilar metals causes electrolysis which anti-seize is used to prevent galling.

Tippy

Ever so true.

Torontoworker

The threads in the cly boss's are STEEL inserts that the plugs screw into and the issue as explained to me is what happens if the release force to remove the plug is higher then the release force between the alum and the steel inserts. He said people think they can leave these new modern plugs in their cars for up to 100 grand (or they are lazy/cheap/believe the plug companies PR) before removing them and a combination of not having the right tools or removal conditions/technque may lead them to keep 'trying' to remove a plug thats almost locked in there instead of stopping and doing something else or making a phone call.

He said it's too late to do much but call the flatbed after you pull out a plug and wonder what that funny bit is surrounding your spark plug threads!! He said he has had two cars so far this year from shade tree types come in that had to have new inserts installed. There is a good reason for the inserts: your not screwing up alumium threads because of the harder material from the plugs if you get it wrong.

If you look at the DIY section on coil/plug replacement here in Rennlist - the guy that wrote it also uses anti seize and lists the Lbs per Sq inch @ 22Lbs. Thats not a lot of force if you think about it and if your standing there and cannot undo the plugs with a small rachet then something is clearly wrong and where his advice comes in to STOP and think out a better solution instead of carrying on thinking all it takes is a good 'snap' of the rachet and it will come out.

1999Porsche911

If in fact, someone is using anti-seize on their plugs and torqing them to 22 ft lbs, then they most likely have thread distortion. Anti-seize has a torque multiplying effect of as much as 25%. Do NOT use any on your plugs or, if you must, reduce the torgue value when tightening.