Weissach Autohaus in CT and 2004 C4S vs BMW 135i
09-09-2009, 07:28 AM
#31
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Oh Phil don't I know it!!! I would have let you visit the car every so often, too! 
I PM'ed you to that effect last week or two to see what you got for it, remember? Seriously, had I shopped sooner, I most likely would have purchased your car. Another person's car also looks great, but it's located in Hawaii!!! I would have to cough up a family vacation on top of the cost of the car.
I agree that at face value, the car should be in the $38k to $41k range. But I hate to say or be a "wouldjatake" when I haven't even seen the car. The kicker is, they are 3 hours EACH way for me.
I saw and drove this car at Herb Chambers... they claim and write it to be a "1 owner" car in their description until we pulled the CARFAX... 3 owners. I hate this bait and switch tactic. Plus, the car was filthy... I felt like taking a shower after driving it. Although the car's paintwork was 3.5 to 4.5, the rear bumper (plastic and doesn't register on a paint meter) was painted (badly at that) and the front bumper had remnants of people "parking by feel". I actually asked them if they could say the car was worth $50k with a straight face....they said "no". Well, at least I got that out of them. He said the car was a 9 out of 10. I said that must be on some "exponential" scale. The car had dings, wheel curb rash, etc.. did I already say it was filthy?
http://chambers.porschedealer.com/20...00708/info.php
So needless to say, I hate disappointments and things that are "not as advertised". Driving 6 hours total to Weissach with potentially a crying baby would make me want to hurt somebody if the cars were not as advertised.
I PM'ed you to that effect last week or two to see what you got for it, remember? Seriously, had I shopped sooner, I most likely would have purchased your car. Another person's car also looks great, but it's located in Hawaii!!! I would have to cough up a family vacation on top of the cost of the car.I agree that at face value, the car should be in the $38k to $41k range. But I hate to say or be a "wouldjatake" when I haven't even seen the car. The kicker is, they are 3 hours EACH way for me.
I saw and drove this car at Herb Chambers... they claim and write it to be a "1 owner" car in their description until we pulled the CARFAX... 3 owners. I hate this bait and switch tactic. Plus, the car was filthy... I felt like taking a shower after driving it. Although the car's paintwork was 3.5 to 4.5, the rear bumper (plastic and doesn't register on a paint meter) was painted (badly at that) and the front bumper had remnants of people "parking by feel". I actually asked them if they could say the car was worth $50k with a straight face....they said "no". Well, at least I got that out of them. He said the car was a 9 out of 10. I said that must be on some "exponential" scale. The car had dings, wheel curb rash, etc.. did I already say it was filthy?
http://chambers.porschedealer.com/20...00708/info.php
So needless to say, I hate disappointments and things that are "not as advertised". Driving 6 hours total to Weissach with potentially a crying baby would make me want to hurt somebody if the cars were not as advertised.
09-09-2009, 09:26 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
If this is the real issue, then I suggest you buy a bus pass and save up until you can buy a new car of your choice. The Porsche is my first "used car" and I don't think I will ever buy a new car without considering the value of the same car used.
09-09-2009, 10:33 AM
#33
It's probably not just the used car stigma but also the new car pride and the 48mo/50k free maintenance of the BMW.
09-09-2009, 11:37 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
I loved my free maintainance from BMW but have experienced the service level drop since 2003. I find the dealer techs average at best and prefer a good Indy. The disconnect between BMW service advisors and techs in the maintainance facilities gives me no confidence.
09-09-2009, 01:27 PM
#35
I'm with Arnee on this one.
To the OP, I'm still not sure what your real question is. Weighing the looks of one car against the speed of another seems odd to me. No matter what you see on paper, you are comparing a high end sports car to a sedan. Two completely different machines.
One of these cars should talk to you, captivate you, more. If not, then the C4S isn't worth the time/effort/money.
Why not look at a used 135? Cheaper, and still w/ warranty?
How is the 135 speedy? From my research it's not that much lighter than the 3 series. Ok, the wheelbase is different, so it should handle differently, but faster, w/ 30 less hp?
And how is it possible to go from 300hp to 400hp with only a chip?
To the OP, I'm still not sure what your real question is. Weighing the looks of one car against the speed of another seems odd to me. No matter what you see on paper, you are comparing a high end sports car to a sedan. Two completely different machines.
One of these cars should talk to you, captivate you, more. If not, then the C4S isn't worth the time/effort/money.
Why not look at a used 135? Cheaper, and still w/ warranty?
How is the 135 speedy? From my research it's not that much lighter than the 3 series. Ok, the wheelbase is different, so it should handle differently, but faster, w/ 30 less hp?
And how is it possible to go from 300hp to 400hp with only a chip?
09-09-2009, 01:29 PM
#36
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I'm very particular and "clean". I would have zero issues buying a car from my twin. Actually, I would have bought Phil's car easily. On all my cars, not one shoe has ever stepped on the floormats. When I sold a 9 year old car last year, the new owner asked, "are these new floormats?" I said, "No, these are original and have never been stepped on." I always used Weathertech floormats on all past and current cars. Record-wise, I even write down each and every gas fillup.... no kidding. Yes, I'm neurotic and I like it that way...
But having said that, there's something "liberating" about not having to do that. My wife still has one of her cars prior to us getting married. That car does not have any gas fillup recorded or does it have as good a record keeping (still good, but not to my standards). It feels good to just "drive it". By buying a used car, I don't think I'd have the same urge to clay/seal/wax bimonthly and remove the wheels to P21S/clay/seal/wax them. Although I find it relaxing/therapuetic, owning several cars is starting to make this a chore.
09-09-2009, 01:47 PM
#37
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One of these cars should talk to you, captivate you, more. If not, then the C4S isn't worth the time/effort/money.
Why not look at a used 135? Cheaper, and still w/ warranty?
How is the 135 speedy? From my research it's not that much lighter than the 3 series. Ok, the wheelbase is different, so it should handle differently, but faster, w/ 30 less hp?
And how is it possible to go from 300hp to 400hp with only a chip?
Why not look at a used 135? Cheaper, and still w/ warranty?
How is the 135 speedy? From my research it's not that much lighter than the 3 series. Ok, the wheelbase is different, so it should handle differently, but faster, w/ 30 less hp?
And how is it possible to go from 300hp to 400hp with only a chip?
I'm not looking at a used 135 since I can still order that car to my spec.
As I said in previous posts, the C4S is a very nice looking elegant car. It has a timeless look to it also. When my wife and I went to Germany through the Porsche Travel club in late 2004, we drove that car "at speed" (check out avatar). Unfortunately, we could no longer order the car to our spec then since the 997's were out.
The 135 is 200 lbs lighter than the 3 series with the same 300 hp / 300 ft-lbs engine.
You can easily get more power out of turbos. This is why you can get monster 996TT's with 600 hp easily. Check out JB3 or Vishnu tuning. 400 rwhp is through chip, full exhaust, intake, injectors.
09-09-2009, 01:49 PM
#38
Team Owner
A friend of mine at work bought a 135i recently and I had a chance to take it out after the break-in period. My frame of reference is my '99 C2 so it may not be quite the same as the C4S, but I didn't find the power to be that different. I realize the torque is alot higher, but at the top end, my car still felt like it had more punch. Maybe it was the weight difference as well... Just interesting that so many have stated that the 135 is SOOO much faster. I tend to disagree. And in a turn/curve, fuggeddabboudit!
They're both great cars, but the choice would be a no-brainer for me.
09-09-2009, 05:18 PM
#39
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The only thing I really don't like about a "used car" is the uncertainty. I.e. - don't know how it's been used, cared for or not, history, etc. I don't care what other people think whether I bought a "new" or used car.
I'm very particular and "clean". I would have zero issues buying a car from my twin. Actually, I would have bought Phil's car easily. On all my cars, not one shoe has ever stepped on the floormats. When I sold a 9 year old car last year, the new owner asked, "are these new floormats?" I said, "No, these are original and have never been stepped on." I always used Weathertech floormats on all past and current cars. Record-wise, I even write down each and every gas fillup.... no kidding. Yes, I'm neurotic and I like it that way...
But having said that, there's something "liberating" about not having to do that. My wife still has one of her cars prior to us getting married. That car does not have any gas fillup recorded or does it have as good a record keeping (still good, but not to my standards). It feels good to just "drive it". By buying a used car, I don't think I'd have the same urge to clay/seal/wax bimonthly and remove the wheels to P21S/clay/seal/wax them. Although I find it relaxing/therapuetic, owning several cars is starting to make this a chore.
I'm very particular and "clean". I would have zero issues buying a car from my twin. Actually, I would have bought Phil's car easily. On all my cars, not one shoe has ever stepped on the floormats. When I sold a 9 year old car last year, the new owner asked, "are these new floormats?" I said, "No, these are original and have never been stepped on." I always used Weathertech floormats on all past and current cars. Record-wise, I even write down each and every gas fillup.... no kidding. Yes, I'm neurotic and I like it that way...
But having said that, there's something "liberating" about not having to do that. My wife still has one of her cars prior to us getting married. That car does not have any gas fillup recorded or does it have as good a record keeping (still good, but not to my standards). It feels good to just "drive it". By buying a used car, I don't think I'd have the same urge to clay/seal/wax bimonthly and remove the wheels to P21S/clay/seal/wax them. Although I find it relaxing/therapuetic, owning several cars is starting to make this a chore.
09-09-2009, 06:10 PM
#40
The C4S weighs less, has AWD and about 20 extra HP...the stock 135i is not faster. It's very close, but anyone driving stock examples and claiming that one is noticeably quicker than the other is confused. As for the chip, sure, that'll make the 135i faster, but I've never understood the logic of comparing a modded vehicle to a stock vehicle.
They're both great cars, but the choice would be a no-brainer for me.
They're both great cars, but the choice would be a no-brainer for me.
09-09-2009, 11:25 PM
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Newsflash!!!! So tonight I took my wife to a nice dinner at "28 Atlantic" at the Cape (for those familiar with the area)... So she says, "Why are you on the computer so much?". So I explain the whole thing to her...now get this... she says...Why not just get them both?
Of course, I didn't show her the inner kid inside me that was doing cartwheels... But I figured she knew that's what was happening...
So now the task at hand is, I need to find a nice clean C4S!!!
Of course, I didn't show her the inner kid inside me that was doing cartwheels... But I figured she knew that's what was happening...
So now the task at hand is, I need to find a nice clean C4S!!!
09-10-2009, 07:37 PM
#43
Hey my wife agreed that I should buy an F360 and F456GT also......now I just need the cash to do so!
09-10-2009, 08:35 PM
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So her exact words were, "I'm going to need a daily driver soon and the only car I'd consider right now is the 135, so you might as well get the C4S."
For you single guys out there...marry a car girl!!!