First track day in a 996 a bit rough, looking for tips
07-15-2009, 01:30 PM
#31
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Thank you for posting this. Your points one and two make sense to me. I am struggling with the third point because coming in faster seems to make the turn in to apex understeer much worse. Do you mean that I should be coming in faster in order to trail brake to the apex to help the car turn in?
The reason I suggest trying to carry more speed at the apex (mid-corner speed) is to reduce the rate of acceleration you do between the apex and the exit. In other words, don't over slow the car at the apex and stand on the throttle to power out of the corner. Remember, minimize your inputs. Even modified these are very soft cars.
Again, just my 2 cents. I could be wrong.
Jim
07-16-2009, 04:09 PM
#32
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No need to come in too hot. You have a softly sprung car which is good for grip but not good for transitions so minimize your inputs. Brake a little longer, a little lighter and through turn in. As you are dialing in steering and coming off the brakes you should feel the car rotate a good bit more as it's rolling over on it's suspension. Once your suspension is set roll through the apex and begin applying just enough throttle to feel the front start pushing a bit. You can correct by either unwinding your steering ever so slightly or feathering the throttle a bit. 996s are very fast is stock form if driven right.
Remember, driving fast is all about managing weight. In a car without much platform (race speak for soft) you need to move your weight around carefully. If you are not careful, it's easy to allow your weight to work against you in a soft car. Think about moving it to where you want it slowly. Slow being relative of course.
Does that make sense? Discussing driving on the internet is very difficult.
Remember, driving fast is all about managing weight. In a car without much platform (race speak for soft) you need to move your weight around carefully. If you are not careful, it's easy to allow your weight to work against you in a soft car. Think about moving it to where you want it slowly. Slow being relative of course.
Does that make sense? Discussing driving on the internet is very difficult.
07-17-2009, 12:33 PM
#34
The reason I suggest trying to carry more speed at the apex (mid-corner speed) is to reduce the rate of acceleration you do between the apex and the exit. In other words, don't over slow the car at the apex and stand on the throttle to power out of the corner. Remember, minimize your inputs. Even modified these are very soft cars.
Again, just my 2 cents. I could be wrong.
Jim
Again, just my 2 cents. I could be wrong.
Jim
I agree with JimBs overall assessment, but I think it applies to people with more seat time. In my experience, the average new driver shouldn't even contemplate rotating under braking as they don't have the core set of driving skills needed to turn while braking. That is, Green/Blue (beginner/intermediate) students often have a hard time repeating the actions needed for each corner, i.e., brake to the right entry speed (not too early, not too late) and turn in properly. IMO, new drivers need to learn car control, consistency and rhythm before they try trailing off the brake in order to get that 10th back.
-td
07-17-2009, 02:56 PM
#35
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I agree with JimBs overall assessment, but I think it applies to people with more seat time. In my experience, the average new driver shouldn't even contemplate rotating under braking as they don't have the core set of driving skills needed to turn while braking. That is, Green/Blue (beginner/intermediate) students often have a hard time repeating the actions needed for each corner, i.e., brake to the right entry speed (not too early, not too late) and turn in properly. IMO, new drivers need to learn car control, consistency and rhythm before they try trailing off the brake in order to get that 10th back.
-td
-td
Again, just my 2 cents.
Jim
07-17-2009, 04:11 PM
#36
Most new drivers lack the kinestetic sense to know the right entry speed. Also, most lack proper seats and harnesses - so their bodies move in relation to the car which can create false "data" about grip.
-td
07-17-2009, 04:38 PM
#37
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I see what you are saysing, but this really doesn't apply to novices. That is, aggressively on the gas does not necessarily mean fast through a corner for a novice driver, it virtually always means overslow on entry. With the extra grip they can be on the gas quite early and aggressively. This can actually be 10ths or more in every corner.
Most new drivers lack the kinestetic sense to know the right entry speed. Also, most lack proper seats and harnesses - so their bodies move in relation to the car which can create false "data" about grip.
-td
Most new drivers lack the kinestetic sense to know the right entry speed. Also, most lack proper seats and harnesses - so their bodies move in relation to the car which can create false "data" about grip.
-td
I agree with all of that and I hope I didn't imply that a novice should focus on getting on the throttle way early. I was just responding to your comment about where to find time.
Personally I think a novice should drive a corner the same way a racer does only slower. (BTW, I don't mean to imply that the OP is a novice) I've never bought into the novice line vs the expert line.
07-17-2009, 07:13 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
From a "I have been to the track a few times, but I am still a novice" perspective, it is hard for me to figure out how to downshift and brake into the corner as JimB is suggesting. Getting confident in my heel and toe would allow me to pick up considerable time, I suspect. Being lame at that aspect, I think I have a lot of time to gain from turn in to apex.
07-17-2009, 11:40 PM
#39
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You'll be fine, the Bimmer is a lot more tossable in my experience. The combo of rear engine and big rear tires takes some adjustment, but sounds like you're half way there.
Check out the Racing forum too, good luck!
Check out the Racing forum too, good luck!
07-19-2009, 03:43 PM
#41
Driving a rear wheel engine car is completely different that your BMW. It takes time to learn the weight transfer of the 996. Patrick Long recently had an article in Grassroots Motorsport on how to drive the rear engined 911.
07-19-2009, 05:45 PM
#42
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I would suggest applying Jim B's ideas out on a skidpad ASAP. Mount up a set of worn tires, grab some cones, and go drifting. There's not a better tool or exercise for car control than a skidpad. Easy to setup, you can create slow or fast corners in addition to driving around the circle learing to control the car using just your right foot in conjunction with unwinding the wheel.
With lots of safe runoff room, try carrying more and more speed into a corner and just let the car coast thru the turn. You can learn lots from these types of exercises including letting go of the wheel if the rear end jumps sideways on you. Your confidence will expand dramatically as you gain car control experience. It's the first exercise I'm going to do with my 996 Spec as soon as it's completed....
Oh and get some camber in that car....
With lots of safe runoff room, try carrying more and more speed into a corner and just let the car coast thru the turn. You can learn lots from these types of exercises including letting go of the wheel if the rear end jumps sideways on you. Your confidence will expand dramatically as you gain car control experience. It's the first exercise I'm going to do with my 996 Spec as soon as it's completed....
Oh and get some camber in that car....
Last edited by jrgordonsenior; 07-21-2009 at 08:06 PM.
