Jake Raby

Boxster S 3.2, virtually the same as a 3.4/996 engine internally, despite the bore size change.. People don't understand how similar they are and it's clear that the factory just gave the 911 more displacement and more power because it's their flagship.

I bought the engine as part of a big package from a dealer that was going under.. It came with a ton of parts that no one else wanted, a new 6 speed trans and etc.. The 3.2 engine was 100% new in the crate with the warranty.. No exhaust had ever seen the ports, the box was still sealed when it arrived on my loading dock.

I had a local Client in Atlanta that had had an intermix failure in his Boxster S and wanted to sell the car, so I gave him a smoking deal on the engine and install since I had no use for it.. I installed the engine, drove it 83 miles round trip to my house for the ECU to adapt and do a tad bit of break in.

The next morning we threw it on the chassis dyno and did one run that had a faily respectable group of numbers. The next run in the series was lower, the next was even lower so we stopped to check the engine closer and didn't find any intermix or loss of compression, no signs of issues and no failed sensors. It had a MAF code, but it was cleared and the MAF was cleaned and we thought the dirty MAF was the source of the lower power, so I started another series of pulls, only this time under full data acquisition through my DL-2 from the lab. The first run the power was up, so we figured the MAF was the issue, on the second pull the engine started to slow at 6K RPM, so I backed out of the throttle and it seized. I pulled off the sump to find the oil pick up completely full of crankcase sealant that had "squeezed" from the case halves and cam covers during assembly (I have pics) and this effectively shut off all oil flow to the oil pump, thus killing the engine. I have seen this failure before, from a 60K and 78K mile engine, and after someone used too much sealant on the sump.(ala cheap rebuild)


At this point the engine belonged to me/ my company.... The Client had not purchased the engine from me..(had not paid me yet)

I ended up eating two days worth of labor to install one of my good used test engines with the IMS retrofit kit installed into the car so the Client could sell the car. I lost 6 days worth of shop time to the fiasco. The used engine made 4HP more than the new engine and 6 lb/ft of torque.

I'd much rather pull apart the damn engine and repair it/ upgrade it my way and sell it as a known commodity than deal with the red tape of trying to explain the ordeal to someone at Porsche thats never assembled an M96... I have already lost enough on the engine, I may as well get before and after data from it and document whats inside of it, because people are always asking us.. I have torn down other failed "new" engines, but none of them had the "latest and greatest" updates that are less than 6 months old.

So there is the story... Its a really sucky story, but at least I now share something in common with the poor guys that call me that have been driving an M96 powered vehicle when it failed.. Until this happened I'd never experienced a failure first hand :-)

Tbred911

HOLY S***

the amazing thing is this happened in the first 1,000 miles...

post pics post pics!!

well my engine was installed in June ... so far so good... and your right about the "latest and greatest" updates just being introduced 6 months ago...

Jake it seems that taking the oil pan off every 2 years to do an inspection is a prudent move no?

Jake Raby

This engine has about 95 miles on it- thats it..

I have an email I received last week from an Enthusiast with questions about the program. His engine that was bought new (3.4) and installed by an Indy shop suffered an intake cam that BROKE IN HALF in less than 100 miles of service after the new engine was installed..

Maybe it would help if the factory actually test ran the engines???? They come with CLEAN exhaust ports ..
For quite some time, every vehicle that comes to us for any oil service has the sump pulled and inspected.. The factory sealant is horrible about getting in places that it should never go over time.

Of course, that service/ preventive measure isn't part of any Porsche service and no TSB has been released concerning this, to my knowledge... Amazing.

Marlon

Wonder what outfit won the competition to rebuild the engines for Porsche. I find it hard to believe that *Porsche* labor and QC would let stuff like this get out the door - maybe one-a-year, but this is amazing. I would almost laugh if it weren't fort the seriousness of their engineering credibility issues. My reman has 1K miles on it and it pulls like a Seabiscuit-racehorse in the final stretch. Maybe I should pull the pan and check the sealant issue

Doug Donsbach

I found way too much sealant floating around in my engine...and that was the one installed in the car at the factory!

Jake Raby

Doug,
Most all engines have some of the crap in the pick up tube... When I build an engine I don't use the factory sealant, because I hate it's properties... It's the same part number as the sealant that holds the windshield in place!! I still don't have a favorite sealant, but I will say that i have found the ones NOT to use! I have some that work very well thus far, but all seem to have some compromise.

When I assemble an engine I pull the sump after the engine has had the break in oil ran on the dyno for a couple of hours. This gives enough heat and oil circulation to have the stray sealant find it's way to the pick up tube, where I can remove it before the engine sees high RPM or sustained load during evaluation..

No matter what sealants I use (or how sparingly I apply it) there is always something in the tube at inspection. When we drain the oil before the engine is shipped I pull the sump again to ensure no more sealant had accumulated during evaluations that could come back to haunt me later.

I had planned on pulling the sump on the new (Porsche) engine after the chassis dyno session just to verify, but I never would have expected so much accumulation in just 83 miles of driving and a few dyno runs...

No directive I have found and no Technician I have talked to has told me that pulling this sump is part of a PDI or other new car or new engine inspection. If we know this occurs and take measures to keep our engines from failing, why can't the factory recognize it and take the measures to keep it from occurring??

It only takes 30 minutes to do, even for a on Porsche factory trained dummy like me :-)

Oh yeah... The best part is since the sealant is shed from the engines parting lines, so when it enters the oil system it does so BEFORE the oil pump and BEFORE the oil filter... So the filter is of ZERO value to this issue..

But I have a fix.. It defies conventional wisdom and engineering, but the sealant can't cause a problem f it has no where to accumulate

Tbred911

Jake,

can you post pics of what the sealant in the tube looks like? I may take my car back to the dealer to have this done as per your recommendation... besides dropping the oil pan do they have to remove the pickup tube to do this or is the pickup tube part of the "sump" assembly...?

Jake Raby

The oil sump pan must be removed to gain a visual of the problem area thats located at the pick up tube.. If the Engineers at Porsche were as brilliant as the accountants they would have placed the oil drain plug closer to this location so a visual could be done at every oil change.. In my personal cars I installed a second plug so this area can be viewed at each oil change.. I machined a boss that I easily Tig welded into the factory pan.. Works great.. It may be a viable product for the future and I am thinking about making it standard on our XR oil pans.

I am having trouble uploading the pics to the site, if you'd like email me and I'll senmd some to you
info@flat6innovations.com

aron in toronto

From Navy'sporsche thread
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...d-porsche.html

"Yeah the prices have gone up then. A 3.4 from Jim Ellis (local) or suncoast is now 16,500."

Prices on 3.4 motors have gone up sharply recently, so it sounds to me like you are on track with your pricing.

You might want to post this on the Boxster forums as many owners there are interested in 3.4 replacements if/when the time come for a new(er) motor.

JR944

Thanks very much Aron. Posting on the Boxster forum right now.
Joe

Marlon

They had that big oil strainer that you could elect to remove and clean when changing the oil. Ah...now those were the days

Tbred911

Here are some pics on the sealant in the engine... a disaster waiting to happen...

Jake Raby

Thanks for posting them, Peter.. I was having a hard time with it..

I have more, I just have to get them off of my camera..

Jake Raby

Thanks for posting them, Peter.. I was having a hard time with it..

I have more, I just have to get them off of my camera..

Paul 996

Jake,

Very revealing pictures. Glad to say I never saw anything like that when I took my sump off. But now I am worried that I may have made matters worse when reapplying the sump with the Porsche sealant and followed the directions pretty specifically about not overdoing the bead size.

Any words of wisdom on how best to put the sump pan back on after we go check the pickup for debris without then actually making things worse?