maci911

H&R Springs (progressive) 170-210 F / 230-260 R

perryinva

Tom,
Did you put in aftermarket springs on your PSS9s? Any idea what the standard PSS9 rates are?

maci911

JIC (linear)
soft - 7/10 (393/564)
med - 8/12 (450/674)

PSS9 (not sure if linear or progressive)
260/515

GT3
Front: 40 N/mm (228.44 lbs/in --> 225 lbs/in) linear
Rear: 95 N/mm (542.55 lbs/in --> 550 lbs/in) progressive

himself

I used the PSS9 springs. IIRC, they are 300/550. GT3 are 228/543. ROW and US M030 are about 170/260, and stock are about 150/200.

Maci,

YOu are just close to stock and M030 settings: 150/200 is stock, you have 170/230 (which is actually closer to M030 settings). I believe Bilstein HD are also comparable to the M030 shocks.

If you start moving to other sport parts like PSS9/10 you will only be making your ride harsher. If you want more comfort you need a softer suspension - not a sport suspension.

-td

eDoug

TD - you've offered great advice on all manner of suspension issues but I'd disagree with you on the last point. Even though spring rates are higher, my experience going from stock US suspension (not M030) is that the PSS9's are actually a more pleasant ride when set to softer adjustments... this is with a 30mm lower ride height, set at about 5 front (1=hardest) and 4 rear. They're also not too difficult to set without removing wheels - you'll tear your fingers up removing the plastic protective boots on the adjusters in the front, but it's probably a 20 minute job.

Also, the car is MUCH more planted at high speed. Regarding cornering, probably slightly better turn-in, more confidence, but it's not really night/day in my opinion. Again, I'm not an expert, just a casual DE'er and generally fast driver on twisty mountain backroads. Also, as you know, I'm also putting in new ARBs and links because I still want to tighten it up a bit more.

ArneeA

Sorry, I haven't logged on. Doug, take a look at actual pictures of the JIC, H&R, KWs, etc vs. the PSS9/PSS10.

Doug Donsbach

Yep. I corrected myself above. Thanks!

ArneeA

Yeah, it's one of those things that I wish I knew before getting the PSS9s. That's one reason why the PSS9's cannot be set to GT2 spec. The shock will hit the internal bump stop.

himself

Good points, but IMO, pleasantness of ride is a subjective test. Some people just don't like anything more than stock. However, most think stock is way too cushy to begin with.

I have had stock, ROW M030, and PSS9. To me, PSS9 on full soft rides and performs about like my ROW M030 - although track performance is still better with PSS9 as I had bigger sway bars. But, stock is by far the most luxo-barge ride. Anything over stock is simply compromising comfort for performance. Some folks can immediately tell the difference, others could care less. Personally, I could ride on full stiff all the time and never blink an eye. As for changing the PSS9, the fronts don't even need to be jacked up if you know which direction to turn - just go all the way soft/stiff, and move back a few clicks. The rears are inside the car so it's pretty easy to get those right.

This has just as much (perhaps more) to do with ride height as suspension components.

Like exhausts, and stereos, suspensions can be difficult to find a good match to your taste.

My suggestion to Maci is to get in a bunch of cars with different suspensions and see what works for him.

-td

maci911

i only wish but in a year yet to see a Pcar on the road around here......

i am more inclined now to go with row(oem) or jic (adjustable shock).....and both are linear .......

any one running jic................?

eDoug

Again, as usual, sage advice on all points, and I agree. Regarding JIC's, while they may be more "adjustable," I've heard they're appreciably more harsh. A great track setup, but definitely more of a compromise for the street than PSS9/10s - again, only from what I've heard...

While I don't have a lot of potholes on my local roads, we have railroad tracks - the PSS9s are very solid and much less jarring over most of my venues than even the stock suspension... and I would recommend something like the JICs for a track junkie... the PSS9/10s seem to be a great street shock to me in my past 3 months... my wife didn't even notice. so to me, that was proof enough - haha. Even if I didn't care about track performance, I would say the PSS9's would be a great upgrade from stock. Gotta consider there's a lot to do with dampers and valving - not all about spring rates.

Do what you will, lot's of well-sorted options, great thing about these cars. But I've gone too far on suspensions in the past and there's nothing worse than living with a suspension that more harsh than you'd like, need, or want. Feels like a bad paint job from Earl Scheib, a waste of money.... and punishing if it's beyond your tastes. On the other hand, if you don't get the performance you want, that's the other side of that coin.... it's a tough decision and one that can be expensive. Keep us posted...

LJpete

I'll interject some data points here, as I've had PSS9's on 2 of my past cars (1 on a E36 BMW, the other on my old 996) as in both cases, depending on the shock valve setting both cars I had rode better than the stock setup. Subjective as that maybe, the key thing to remember here is that regardless of the spring rate, the shock valving must be matched to the spring rate and in the case of the Pss9's they are. This is how the net effect of increasing spring rates can feel just as comfortable or better than the stock setup with substantially lower spring rates. I've ridden in cars with 900lb+ spring rates and with correctly valved shocks/struts, they rode just fine and I have an extremely sensitive back. Case in point as I'm not sure what stock spring rates for the 996 are I'll use my old E36 as the example, had
~120 springs and stock shocks, but BMW is notorious for setting up their shocks to too much compression resistance so the initial hit on a BMWs is a bit harsh so the car resists allowing the wheel to travel upward to soak up the bump but the soft spring rate allows for quite a bit of roll. With the PSS9 Setup (~300 front and ~350 rear), the compression and rebound are controlled much more precisely, the suspension much more effectively damps bumps but offers superior roll resistance and also dramatically reduces brake dive and acceleration squat.

With regards to the suspension travel, you will loose a bit of travel in either compression or droop depending on the ride height setting you pick as compared to stock. Is it detrimental to driving? In most cases no unless you choose extremes of either high or low ride height. As mentioned before, too low and you do not have a lot of compression travel to soak up the bump and will hit the bumpstop a lot. Over time this will damage suspension components (depending on the severity of the bumps and you will end up with less control of your car in high performance situations. Too high and you don't have a lot of droop travel and can lift a wheel on gas station and other entrances. The ideal setup is somewhere in the center of the pistons travel in either direction.

IMHO the PSS9's are one of the best street/autocross/track setups if your car is a multipurpose car. There are obviously better setups for dedicated track but that is another discussion as that's not what the OP had targeted.

I hope this helps,

maci911

thanks everyone! after considering all ur inputs and my driving needs and talking to sunset and 2 porsche dealers here in minneapolis....i decided to go with oem row030 from sunset ... thanks again.

ps ....now my h&r springs(unknown milage),h&r sways(less than 200miles) and bilsteins hd(less than 200 miles) will be available for sale.....pm me if interested.....