Approx. Cost of Painting Aero Kit???
01-06-2009, 11:30 PM
#16
Nordschleife Master
Thanks Tim - I should have clarified. I appreciate your comments in preventing a misunderstanding.
Porsche does make it very hard to obtain individual components and discourages the practice - even though the bumper and side skirts have been installed on cars from the factory without the wing.
Buying the OEM wing alone is very hard - the price is only slightly less than the full kit and is done to "encourage" purchasers to install the whole kit.
Porsche does make it very hard to obtain individual components and discourages the practice - even though the bumper and side skirts have been installed on cars from the factory without the wing.
Buying the OEM wing alone is very hard - the price is only slightly less than the full kit and is done to "encourage" purchasers to install the whole kit.
01-07-2009, 09:14 AM
#17
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guys,
i have the TSB from porsche over the acceptable combinations of aero components. it clearly states that an aero front is not acceptable to be fitted without an aero rear spoiler, whether this can include the smaller carrera aero spoiler as an option is unclear, i would assume it may be.
the options are:
side skirts by themselves,
front bumper and aero decklid/wing without sideskirts
front bumper, aero decklid/wing and sideskirts
it then says in bold. No other combinations are acceptable or permitable.
let me try and dig it out when i get home and post it up. i know many people fit up the front bumper without doing anything to the rear to give their car a more aggressive front. i just wanted the poster to be clear that porsche went to the trouble of expressly stating that this wasnt allowed to be done by either themselves or their dealers. i know i've driven my car without the CF rear wing on as an experiment and it didnt feel nice at all.
i have the TSB from porsche over the acceptable combinations of aero components. it clearly states that an aero front is not acceptable to be fitted without an aero rear spoiler, whether this can include the smaller carrera aero spoiler as an option is unclear, i would assume it may be.
the options are:
side skirts by themselves,
front bumper and aero decklid/wing without sideskirts
front bumper, aero decklid/wing and sideskirts
it then says in bold. No other combinations are acceptable or permitable.
let me try and dig it out when i get home and post it up. i know many people fit up the front bumper without doing anything to the rear to give their car a more aggressive front. i just wanted the poster to be clear that porsche went to the trouble of expressly stating that this wasnt allowed to be done by either themselves or their dealers. i know i've driven my car without the CF rear wing on as an experiment and it didnt feel nice at all.
01-07-2009, 09:18 AM
#18
Nordschleife Master
The rear aero wing (Cup or Cup II excluding the Carrera wing) is not rec'd with no front aero. However, you can install the front aero and NOT the rear as long as you have either the fixed unit (Carrera wing) or motorized rear spoiler. The rear wing INCREASES downforce while the front does NOT.
Further, you can install the Carrera rear wing (not Cup or Cup II) WITHOUT the front aero as long as you install the splitter (lip that comes with the wing).
Further, you can install the Carrera rear wing (not Cup or Cup II) WITHOUT the front aero as long as you install the splitter (lip that comes with the wing).
01-07-2009, 10:27 AM
#19
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did they issue an updated TSB? i havent seen one saying this. i just have the one which lists combinations above and it clearly says you cant use the front aero without the fixed rear wing.
that being said, they dont say you can add motons, wheels, set up to kussumaul etc etc either and it doesnt stop anyone either
that being said, they dont say you can add motons, wheels, set up to kussumaul etc etc either and it doesnt stop anyone either
01-07-2009, 10:36 AM
#20
Nordschleife Master
Their own Teq catalog states it. I have posted it in the past. It's very simple.....don't add rear downforce without reducing lift up front (nothing offered increased downforce in front). Reducing lift in front does NOT have an adverse effect on stability when coupled with either the fixed carrera wing or motorized wing.
Further, the downforce of the fixed carrera or motorized wing can be helped with the lip for stability but not absolutely necessary.
I have also tried various combos of wings and splitters/aero components and can tell you that it's much more scary to increase the downforce in the rear without addressing the front lift.
Further, the downforce of the fixed carrera or motorized wing can be helped with the lip for stability but not absolutely necessary.
I have also tried various combos of wings and splitters/aero components and can tell you that it's much more scary to increase the downforce in the rear without addressing the front lift.
01-07-2009, 11:12 AM
#21
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from the installation instructions (i cant find the TSB i was looking for in my outstanding filing system)
Vehicle Type: 911 Carrera 2 Coupe (996)
Model Year: As of '02 (2)
Information: Installation of Aerokit "Cup II" retrofit kit. This kit consists of a front spoiler (A) including spoiler lip, two side member panels (B) and a rear lid (C) with rigid spoiler.
These tested parts reduce the front-axle lift and rear-axle lift.
Authorized retrofitting options:
1. Front spoiler with spoiler lip only in conjunction with rear spoiler.
2. Front spoiler with spoiler lip only in conjunction with rear spoiler and both side member panels.
3. Only side member panels.
Other retrofiitting options are not permissible!
Vehicle Type: 911 Carrera Coupe (996)
Model Year: As of '99 (X)
Concern: Installation of the front spoiler, rear spoiler and side member panels (“Cup Aerokit”).
Information: The Cup Aerokit for the 911 Carrera (996) Coupe consists of a front spoiler with exchangeable spoiler lip, two side member panels and a rear lid with spoiler. These components, when installed, reduce lift on the front and rear axles, especially at higher speeds.
The front spoiler and rear lid/spoiler, must always be installed together; it is not permissible to install one of these parts individually! Always set the adjustable spoiler to its lowest position (top side of spoiler and side parts must be level and flush). Any other position of the adjustable spoiler will change the driving characteristics of the vehicle, and are NOT approved for use on public roads!
im not disagreeing with what you are saying, just the specifics of what porsches own information says. my own thoughts are that the motorised rear wing is not enough to offer balance for the front end but YMMV. i definately feel reduced front lift from the front bumper and lip and didnt like it when i was bored one day and ran around the block with the rear wing off the base when i was fitting the cup one on in its place.
all that being said, like you i would say that front without a rear is up to each individual, rear without a front is asking for serious trouble
Vehicle Type: 911 Carrera 2 Coupe (996)
Model Year: As of '02 (2)
Information: Installation of Aerokit "Cup II" retrofit kit. This kit consists of a front spoiler (A) including spoiler lip, two side member panels (B) and a rear lid (C) with rigid spoiler.
These tested parts reduce the front-axle lift and rear-axle lift.
Authorized retrofitting options:
1. Front spoiler with spoiler lip only in conjunction with rear spoiler.
2. Front spoiler with spoiler lip only in conjunction with rear spoiler and both side member panels.
3. Only side member panels.
Other retrofiitting options are not permissible!
Vehicle Type: 911 Carrera Coupe (996)
Model Year: As of '99 (X)
Concern: Installation of the front spoiler, rear spoiler and side member panels (“Cup Aerokit”).
Information: The Cup Aerokit for the 911 Carrera (996) Coupe consists of a front spoiler with exchangeable spoiler lip, two side member panels and a rear lid with spoiler. These components, when installed, reduce lift on the front and rear axles, especially at higher speeds.
The front spoiler and rear lid/spoiler, must always be installed together; it is not permissible to install one of these parts individually! Always set the adjustable spoiler to its lowest position (top side of spoiler and side parts must be level and flush). Any other position of the adjustable spoiler will change the driving characteristics of the vehicle, and are NOT approved for use on public roads!
im not disagreeing with what you are saying, just the specifics of what porsches own information says. my own thoughts are that the motorised rear wing is not enough to offer balance for the front end but YMMV. i definately feel reduced front lift from the front bumper and lip and didnt like it when i was bored one day and ran around the block with the rear wing off the base when i was fitting the cup one on in its place.
all that being said, like you i would say that front without a rear is up to each individual, rear without a front is asking for serious trouble
Last edited by outline; 01-07-2009 at 11:27 AM.
01-07-2009, 11:23 AM
#22
Nordschleife Master
As I already said, you are talking about the Cup not Carrera kit......drastically different wings than the motorized wing already on the car and the fixed Carrera wing.
Trust me on the handling characteristics. I have the aero front and sides on (and splitter) with NO rear wing (excpet the motorized one) and have tracked the crap out of my car at very high speeds and at the limit of the car to the best of my ability (I'll let others chime in on my ability). The car performed outstanding when I made those changes and the stability was fantastic.
Trust me on the handling characteristics. I have the aero front and sides on (and splitter) with NO rear wing (excpet the motorized one) and have tracked the crap out of my car at very high speeds and at the limit of the car to the best of my ability (I'll let others chime in on my ability). The car performed outstanding when I made those changes and the stability was fantastic.
01-07-2009, 11:37 AM
#23
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the correct name used for porsche for the aero kit is "aero kit cup" and if my understanding is correct the aero kit and the GT3 kit are the same items save for the intake position inside the hood.. im not up on the carrera options from the tequipment range, do they use the term aero in their stuff also?
perhaps this is where the crossed wires have occurred. i was reading the original post as though it was referring to this aero kit (ie gt3 style)
the original post, and my subsequent comments were entirely based upon an aero kit in the same style as the GT3 being fitted up. the carrera styling is an whole other kettle of fish. its much more modular as you say as it enhances the features of the car, not drastically changes them, atleast thats my understanding.
as i read it, if you have the front bumper that looks like the GT3 ones (either mk1 or mk2) then you become subject to the statements made by porsche in the installation instructions for the kit i posted above. whether you choose to accept them or not is another issue, whether you feel you gain better or as good performance from ignoring it is also another issue and im personally not that interested in debating either as ive no right to tell anyone that how they feel about something that can only be measured subjectively is right or wrong.
ive no desire to get into it over semantics or personal experiences with you thats for sure. each is free to make their own choices as to what they like best in terms of feel. its all very subjective and is what keeps it all interesting. i wouldnt let 19s anywhere near my car but that doesnt make it right for example.
all i was trying to do was add some info direct form porsche themselves for the original poster to consider when fitting up his items. people coming into this new from other car brands often dont consider the engineering that goes behind most items and the subsequent impact it may have if they choose to pick and choose
perhaps this is where the crossed wires have occurred. i was reading the original post as though it was referring to this aero kit (ie gt3 style)
the original post, and my subsequent comments were entirely based upon an aero kit in the same style as the GT3 being fitted up. the carrera styling is an whole other kettle of fish. its much more modular as you say as it enhances the features of the car, not drastically changes them, atleast thats my understanding.
as i read it, if you have the front bumper that looks like the GT3 ones (either mk1 or mk2) then you become subject to the statements made by porsche in the installation instructions for the kit i posted above. whether you choose to accept them or not is another issue, whether you feel you gain better or as good performance from ignoring it is also another issue and im personally not that interested in debating either as ive no right to tell anyone that how they feel about something that can only be measured subjectively is right or wrong.
ive no desire to get into it over semantics or personal experiences with you thats for sure. each is free to make their own choices as to what they like best in terms of feel. its all very subjective and is what keeps it all interesting. i wouldnt let 19s anywhere near my car but that doesnt make it right for example.
all i was trying to do was add some info direct form porsche themselves for the original poster to consider when fitting up his items. people coming into this new from other car brands often dont consider the engineering that goes behind most items and the subsequent impact it may have if they choose to pick and choose
01-07-2009, 11:56 AM
#24
Nordschleife Master
Not interested in a debate either. Just stating the facts. The "GT3" style wings are called the Cup versions and are MkI (Taco) and MkII (blade no struts) while the fixed small wing that replaces the motorized wing is called the Carrera wing. Porsche has stated what they have wrt the Cup versions.
And I agree, 19's wouldn't go anywhere near my car (for the track that is).
Remember, PAG/PCNA have made statements as rec'd protocol yet I have seen NO published data on the lift/downforce/drag/etc on the piece combos. I can only speak from experience with my cars and the work of my race shop.
Carry on.....
And I agree, 19's wouldn't go anywhere near my car (for the track that is).
Remember, PAG/PCNA have made statements as rec'd protocol yet I have seen NO published data on the lift/downforce/drag/etc on the piece combos. I can only speak from experience with my cars and the work of my race shop.
Carry on.....
01-07-2009, 02:11 PM
#25
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i think its sometimes the drawback of forums that its easy to end up talking at cross purposes about essentially the same thing in a way that wouldnt happen face to face.
i saw published figures on downforces from the "gt3" style kits somewhere but can i find it now. it essentially said the taco style wing was pretty much useless but that the later bi-plane wing offered significant force. it did say that porsche has published figures for the mk2 kit but not for the mk1 with the inference that this was why.
why is it that i always randomly discover weird titbits of information and then they disappear on me just as fast.
i saw published figures on downforces from the "gt3" style kits somewhere but can i find it now. it essentially said the taco style wing was pretty much useless but that the later bi-plane wing offered significant force. it did say that porsche has published figures for the mk2 kit but not for the mk1 with the inference that this was why.
why is it that i always randomly discover weird titbits of information and then they disappear on me just as fast.
01-07-2009, 02:33 PM
#27
I also read that with the MK1 Aerokit (taco) reduces top speed by 5-6 mph... because of the down force it creates... it is also recommended to adjust the position of the wing in its most upright position when on the track for greater stability... like you I can no longer find that source
01-07-2009, 02:38 PM
#28
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I also read that with the MK1 Aerokit (taco) reduces top speed by 5-6 mph... because of the down force it creates... it is also recommended to adjust the position of the wing in its most upright position when on the track for greater stability... like you I can no longer find that source
01-07-2009, 02:48 PM
#30
Nordschleife Master
sorry, control-click, save-as 
as far as the comment about the MkI Taco being useless....what author made that stupid comment? Increases downforce on the rear axle (especially with the adjustable middle section) and was run on the race cars tells me that it did what it was designed to do (ie, aero not just aesthetics).
as far as the comment about the MkI Taco being useless....what author made that stupid comment? Increases downforce on the rear axle (especially with the adjustable middle section) and was run on the race cars tells me that it did what it was designed to do (ie, aero not just aesthetics).