Alas, Another 996 Engine Bites the Dust
04-22-2008, 01:28 AM
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Alas, Another 996 Engine Bites the Dust
My 996 is a 2001 model, with 37,000 miles on it, never tracked. I alternate driving my 1985.5 944. A month ago I had it in to Barrier Porsche for oil, filters, new plugs, thorough checkover, that sort of thing. I drove it for about a week, then did some service work on the 944 and drove that for a while. When I returned to my 996, sleeping comfortably for a week in the garage, I got a surprise. Usually i switch cars every couple of days. When I tried to start the 996 there was a bit of a clatter. I stopped immediately and looked under the hood to see if a belt had broken or some such. Nope. Tried starting again, started OK, ran smoothly, drove to work, parked for the day. I came out at 3 PM to drive over to Seattle for a meeting. Car started, but ran rough. I backed out of the lot and started to drive to Seattle and the Check Engine Light slowly lit up. Oops. Drove straight to Barrier, engine running with a bit of a miss, oil pressure, temperature, and voltage fine.
I went into the service area, handed them the keys, and asked if they'd forgotten to put something back on. They called the next day and said there was coolant in the #2 cylinder, probably due to a cracked cylinder wall or blown head gasket. New engine time, probably. I remembered being spooked by all of the dying engine threads here three years ago, and had purchased an extended warranty when the factory warranty ran out. Turns out to have been a good investment. I went in to check out the damage and the crack was a biggy, in the bottom of the cylinder mouth. The insurance folks took their time getting in to inspect the engine, but agreed they would cover it. They tried to convince Barrier that it must be due to overheating, but Barrier said, no, no evidence of that. Then they changed their tack and said, maybe he froze the block. So they tested the antifreeze, good to -40ºF. Then they gave in. It took about a week to get the new engine (rebuilt) from Porsche, and get it installed. All is well again, and I now have a car with 37K miles on the tranny and body and 0 on the engine.
Two years warranty on the new engine, and the remainder of my extended warranty, and I am a happy camper. This begs the question, however, of what to do in two years. I like to keep 'em forever, but my confidence is a bit shaken right now. Barrier has treated me well, but i am a little worried about the future. Seriously, blowing your engine while it is parked in the garage does not burnish the performance car image. :-) Talking with the Service reps, they intimated that improvements had been made on IMS issues, but that there were no mods or upgrades to the cylinder wall cracking problem.
I would be seriously bummed if I hadn't taken out the extended warranty.
I have done most of the service work on my 944, and you can reel off a list of all the things that need to be fixed or replaced on those cars, and it is extensive. But the engines have always been workhorses. You just keep adding water pumps, steering racks, radiators, oil cooler rebuilds, heater valves, clutch slave cylinders, etc, as required. The 996 runs flawlessly, is a gas to drive, great fun, but it makes me a bit nervous now.
Bill P
I went into the service area, handed them the keys, and asked if they'd forgotten to put something back on. They called the next day and said there was coolant in the #2 cylinder, probably due to a cracked cylinder wall or blown head gasket. New engine time, probably. I remembered being spooked by all of the dying engine threads here three years ago, and had purchased an extended warranty when the factory warranty ran out. Turns out to have been a good investment. I went in to check out the damage and the crack was a biggy, in the bottom of the cylinder mouth. The insurance folks took their time getting in to inspect the engine, but agreed they would cover it. They tried to convince Barrier that it must be due to overheating, but Barrier said, no, no evidence of that. Then they changed their tack and said, maybe he froze the block. So they tested the antifreeze, good to -40ºF. Then they gave in. It took about a week to get the new engine (rebuilt) from Porsche, and get it installed. All is well again, and I now have a car with 37K miles on the tranny and body and 0 on the engine.
Two years warranty on the new engine, and the remainder of my extended warranty, and I am a happy camper. This begs the question, however, of what to do in two years. I like to keep 'em forever, but my confidence is a bit shaken right now. Barrier has treated me well, but i am a little worried about the future. Seriously, blowing your engine while it is parked in the garage does not burnish the performance car image. :-) Talking with the Service reps, they intimated that improvements had been made on IMS issues, but that there were no mods or upgrades to the cylinder wall cracking problem.
I would be seriously bummed if I hadn't taken out the extended warranty.
I have done most of the service work on my 944, and you can reel off a list of all the things that need to be fixed or replaced on those cars, and it is extensive. But the engines have always been workhorses. You just keep adding water pumps, steering racks, radiators, oil cooler rebuilds, heater valves, clutch slave cylinders, etc, as required. The 996 runs flawlessly, is a gas to drive, great fun, but it makes me a bit nervous now.
Bill P
04-22-2008, 01:53 AM
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They are wrong when saying that cylinder head cracking hasn't been addressed - this has absolutely been redesigned and better QC in manufacturing has pretty much eliminated this as a 'feature' on later 996 blocks.
If you block is pre-3.6 era, you're rolling the dice IMHO
If you block is pre-3.6 era, you're rolling the dice IMHO
04-22-2008, 01:53 AM
#4
Banned
My 996 is a 2001 model, with 37,000 miles on it, never tracked. I alternate driving my 1985.5 944. A month ago I had it in to Barrier Porsche for oil, filters, new plugs, thorough checkover, that sort of thing. I drove it for about a week, then did some service work on the 944 and drove that for a while. When I returned to my 996, sleeping comfortably for a week in the garage, I got a surprise. Usually i switch cars every couple of days. When I tried to start the 996 there was a bit of a clatter. I stopped immediately and looked under the hood to see if a belt had broken or some such. Nope. Tried starting again, started OK, ran smoothly, drove to work, parked for the day. I came out at 3 PM to drive over to Seattle for a meeting. Car started, but ran rough. I backed out of the lot and started to drive to Seattle and the Check Engine Light slowly lit up. Oops. Drove straight to Barrier, engine running with a bit of a miss, oil pressure, temperature, and voltage fine.
I went into the service area, handed them the keys, and asked if they'd forgotten to put something back on. They called the next day and said there was coolant in the #2 cylinder, probably due to a cracked cylinder wall or blown head gasket. New engine time, probably. I remembered being spooked by all of the dying engine threads here three years ago, and had purchased an extended warranty when the factory warranty ran out. Turns out to have been a good investment. I went in to check out the damage and the crack was a biggy, in the bottom of the cylinder mouth. The insurance folks took their time getting in to inspect the engine, but agreed they would cover it. They tried to convince Barrier that it must be due to overheating, but Barrier said, no, no evidence of that. Then they changed their tack and said, maybe he froze the block. So they tested the antifreeze, good to -40ºF. Then they gave in. It took about a week to get the new engine (rebuilt) from Porsche, and get it installed. All is well again, and I now have a car with 37K miles on the tranny and body and 0 on the engine.
Two years warranty on the new engine, and the remainder of my extended warranty, and I am a happy camper. This begs the question, however, of what to do in two years. I like to keep 'em forever, but my confidence is a bit shaken right now. Barrier has treated me well, but i am a little worried about the future. Seriously, blowing your engine while it is parked in the garage does not burnish the performance car image. :-) Talking with the Service reps, they intimated that improvements had been made on IMS issues, but that there were no mods or upgrades to the cylinder wall cracking problem.
I would be seriously bummed if I hadn't taken out the extended warranty.
I have done most of the service work on my 944, and you can reel off a list of all the things that need to be fixed or replaced on those cars, and it is extensive. But the engines have always been workhorses. You just keep adding water pumps, steering racks, radiators, oil cooler rebuilds, heater valves, clutch slave cylinders, etc, as required. The 996 runs flawlessly, is a gas to drive, great fun, but it makes me a bit nervous now.
Bill P
I went into the service area, handed them the keys, and asked if they'd forgotten to put something back on. They called the next day and said there was coolant in the #2 cylinder, probably due to a cracked cylinder wall or blown head gasket. New engine time, probably. I remembered being spooked by all of the dying engine threads here three years ago, and had purchased an extended warranty when the factory warranty ran out. Turns out to have been a good investment. I went in to check out the damage and the crack was a biggy, in the bottom of the cylinder mouth. The insurance folks took their time getting in to inspect the engine, but agreed they would cover it. They tried to convince Barrier that it must be due to overheating, but Barrier said, no, no evidence of that. Then they changed their tack and said, maybe he froze the block. So they tested the antifreeze, good to -40ºF. Then they gave in. It took about a week to get the new engine (rebuilt) from Porsche, and get it installed. All is well again, and I now have a car with 37K miles on the tranny and body and 0 on the engine.
Two years warranty on the new engine, and the remainder of my extended warranty, and I am a happy camper. This begs the question, however, of what to do in two years. I like to keep 'em forever, but my confidence is a bit shaken right now. Barrier has treated me well, but i am a little worried about the future. Seriously, blowing your engine while it is parked in the garage does not burnish the performance car image. :-) Talking with the Service reps, they intimated that improvements had been made on IMS issues, but that there were no mods or upgrades to the cylinder wall cracking problem.
I would be seriously bummed if I hadn't taken out the extended warranty.
I have done most of the service work on my 944, and you can reel off a list of all the things that need to be fixed or replaced on those cars, and it is extensive. But the engines have always been workhorses. You just keep adding water pumps, steering racks, radiators, oil cooler rebuilds, heater valves, clutch slave cylinders, etc, as required. The 996 runs flawlessly, is a gas to drive, great fun, but it makes me a bit nervous now.
Bill P
04-22-2008, 02:39 PM
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Through Barrier; the Platinum plan through Fidelity Warranty services, although they called it F&J or some such. I don't have the paperwork here with me.
04-22-2008, 02:44 PM
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I know that Barrier has another IMS blasted M96 in there. Wonder how many they see.
I also purchased the aftermarket warranty through them and likely the same company and plan as yours IIRC, but am a bit concerned to hear how the warranty company "took their time" as the whole sales speak (Barrier Porsche finance rep) was that because I'm buying this plan through Barrier, it's a much smoother process to get claims pushed through. On these grounds, I spent $3500 on it.
Let's say it was overheating or a frozen block... how would that impact the repair coverage?
Glad to hear, though, that they did eventually agree to cover the cost for the replacement engine + labor. Sounds like Barrier stood their ground for you. The Barrier Porsche service reps have always done me right whenever I dropped by in the past year so in this I see some consistency on their end.
I also purchased the aftermarket warranty through them and likely the same company and plan as yours IIRC, but am a bit concerned to hear how the warranty company "took their time" as the whole sales speak (Barrier Porsche finance rep) was that because I'm buying this plan through Barrier, it's a much smoother process to get claims pushed through. On these grounds, I spent $3500 on it.
Let's say it was overheating or a frozen block... how would that impact the repair coverage?
Glad to hear, though, that they did eventually agree to cover the cost for the replacement engine + labor. Sounds like Barrier stood their ground for you. The Barrier Porsche service reps have always done me right whenever I dropped by in the past year so in this I see some consistency on their end.
04-22-2008, 03:11 PM
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Regarding IMS failures, they intimated, a lot. Further, cracked cylinder walls were much less of a problem. Lucky me! I think that it is a much smoother process with Barrier acting as the intermediary. The need for the inspector to come look at it was probably due to the size of the repair bill. The insurance company will skate if they can (they are not like USAA), but I think you do have Barrier on your side. I was fortunate that I had just had a service done the week before. They had seen the car, inspected it (at a price beyond rubies) and declared it to be OK (save the battery being on it's last legs, which I remedied a couple of days later). So when I brought it back with the cracked cylinder they could affirm that the car was OK, no problems, serviced, etc. The cost of the service was pretty steep, but you can think of it as buying some extra protection in dealing with the insurance company. All I had to do was wave a credit card at them for $100; they took care of everything else. That's a good thing.
Now, if it was overheating or a frozen block, they would have called negligence and refused to pay. For example, if the head gasket had blown, they would have said -Overheating! Owner negligence!- and refused to pay. Another thing to consider is that if you have the Platinum coverage, it covers towing and rental cars and such. If you have any problems that might be exacerbated by driving the car, don't do it. Have it towed to Barrier. My normal thinking is, limp to my garage (for the 944) or to Barrier (for the 996). That is probably a bad idea with the extended warranty. You are probably better off getting it towed in so that the insurance company can't claim you abused it by continuing to drive it. Read the fine print on what you need to do. Remember, they are in business to make money, and are not your friends.
Now, if it was overheating or a frozen block, they would have called negligence and refused to pay. For example, if the head gasket had blown, they would have said -Overheating! Owner negligence!- and refused to pay. Another thing to consider is that if you have the Platinum coverage, it covers towing and rental cars and such. If you have any problems that might be exacerbated by driving the car, don't do it. Have it towed to Barrier. My normal thinking is, limp to my garage (for the 944) or to Barrier (for the 996). That is probably a bad idea with the extended warranty. You are probably better off getting it towed in so that the insurance company can't claim you abused it by continuing to drive it. Read the fine print on what you need to do. Remember, they are in business to make money, and are not your friends.
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04-24-2008, 02:24 PM
#9
Banned
Regarding IMS failures, they intimated, a lot. Further, cracked cylinder walls were much less of a problem. Lucky me! I think that it is a much smoother process with Barrier acting as the intermediary. The need for the inspector to come look at it was probably due to the size of the repair bill. The insurance company will skate if they can (they are not like USAA), but I think you do have Barrier on your side. I was fortunate that I had just had a service done the week before. They had seen the car, inspected it (at a price beyond rubies) and declared it to be OK (save the battery being on it's last legs, which I remedied a couple of days later). So when I brought it back with the cracked cylinder they could affirm that the car was OK, no problems, serviced, etc. The cost of the service was pretty steep, but you can think of it as buying some extra protection in dealing with the insurance company. All I had to do was wave a credit card at them for $100; they took care of everything else. That's a good thing.
Now, if it was overheating or a frozen block, they would have called negligence and refused to pay. For example, if the head gasket had blown, they would have said -Overheating! Owner negligence!- and refused to pay. Another thing to consider is that if you have the Platinum coverage, it covers towing and rental cars and such. If you have any problems that might be exacerbated by driving the car, don't do it. Have it towed to Barrier. My normal thinking is, limp to my garage (for the 944) or to Barrier (for the 996). That is probably a bad idea with the extended warranty. You are probably better off getting it towed in so that the insurance company can't claim you abused it by continuing to drive it. Read the fine print on what you need to do. Remember, they are in business to make money, and are not your friends.
Now, if it was overheating or a frozen block, they would have called negligence and refused to pay. For example, if the head gasket had blown, they would have said -Overheating! Owner negligence!- and refused to pay. Another thing to consider is that if you have the Platinum coverage, it covers towing and rental cars and such. If you have any problems that might be exacerbated by driving the car, don't do it. Have it towed to Barrier. My normal thinking is, limp to my garage (for the 944) or to Barrier (for the 996). That is probably a bad idea with the extended warranty. You are probably better off getting it towed in so that the insurance company can't claim you abused it by continuing to drive it. Read the fine print on what you need to do. Remember, they are in business to make money, and are not your friends.
I typically take my car to a trusted and capable local indy shop for misc service (www.cantrellmotorsport.com), but for the major service at 60K, I do plan on paying the higher labor rate that Barrier Porsche charges following your logic above. And, again, I have had a good experience thus far with the service managers at Barrier so I hope his continues via having mutual respect for one another.
I also bought the platinum level coverage so I can best close out any loopholes for the warranty company to try burrow into should I run into any major service repairs. My car has a reman engine installed in 4/2003 so in this I have some peace of mind in the long term reliability and performance of my M96.
04-24-2008, 04:09 PM
#10
Sorry to hear this, but glad that you had the Fidelity warranty and they covered the engine. I just bought the Gold Plus version which seemed to be at the sweet spot of coverage/$$ for my car's age and mileage. I also bought it through the dealer that services my car with the same thoughts that you guys had. I was told that most repairs are given approval over the phone, but something big like an engine may require a visit from an adjustor.
