Ray S

+1

I'm thankful that I grew up learning to drive RWD cars with no ABS, PSM, TC, etc. and that I know what to do if I get in trouble. Plus, as you stated, it is fun making your own corrections.

Will the next generation of drivers gain that experience?

I suppose I'm glad that the idiot in the next lane (with the cell phone in one hand and a Big Mac in the other) has it on his or her car.

estsn.com

I'm glad I learned to drive on primitive RWD beasts like the Datsun 240Z and the old Celicas and Supras. They had excellent chassis dynamics for their time, but compared to today - they were downright dangerous. The first generation Zs cornered at around .8 (if you replaced the crappy 175R14 stock all-season tires) and took around 150ft to stop from 60mph. Rear drums baby - rear drums. Heh. The Z also lost all stability above 90mph because of the nose design.


ALWAYS far more a concern for me then anything I'm doing. I perpetually drive in a state of near-paranoid suspicion that every driver around me is about to do something incredibly stupid that will put my life in danger. It's depressing how often I'm right.


/

uberskier

I agree. My Audi A6 had the ABS control module go and I didn't fix it for about 8 months. My mechanic said, "Why fix it, you just don't have ABS, how did you drive before ABS". I never had a problem without it.

But, it certainly got me thinking.

Although I did get it fixed this January shortly before a long ride from near NYC to Jay Peak, VT. Once I hit the VT border on Friday afternoon, I never saw pavement until Sunday afternoon. Even though I knew I could drive it without ABS, I was very glad to have it as a back up in the rain/sleet/ice/frozen crud roadways.

(When it snows, I'll always take the Audi - a 99 with 147K miles - why have the idiots who can't drive hit my C4S?)

dirtrack49

I would not let an option like PSM get in the way of getting a good deal on a 911. Yes, it is nice to have, but so are all the other options that are available.
When I went looking for my used 2002 C2 a few years back, the only options I wanted were a sport suspension and 18 inch wheels. I got lucky and found one with not only those options but with PSM and PSE.
I like my sports cars to be bare bone minimum as far as options. They are canyon race cars and I don't use them for ordinary driving. All the bells and whistles along with the navigation systems should remain on SUV's not on a sports car.
I say go for it!
Tom L
2002 C2

Molly

I grew up drifting my big *** 70s and 80s BMWs around corners before they even had ABS. If I had psm that would be fine but it's not even on my radar when I look at p-cars.

wwest

It might be best NOT to confuse ABS with PSM(VSC) or even TC, Traction Control (virtual LSD, etc.). Insofar as I am concerned ABS is a rather useless feature and until it gets linked to PSM(VSC) for activation it will continue to be a safety hazard in certain situations.

Just how many of us, even at track time, can be fully alert 100% 0f the time? PSM is ALWAYS fully alert.

It is my understanding that while PSM can be turned off TC cannot, not even the virtual rear LSD aspects. But then just how many of us have EVER made use of TC when it wasn't desireable to have it as backup.

Mine is a C4 and insofar as I know TC has NEVER activated inadvertently.

Ray S

Not true, when you turn PSM off, you turn TC off.

Carrera Mike

Check this out...

http://www.coochas.com/porsche/Resources/996.5PSM.mov

Also there's a video somewhere in coochas where they clocked the car with way shorter lap time with the PSM on.

http://www.coochas.com/porsche/911vids.html#996

450knotOffice

No PSM on my 2000 996 C2 and I have never missed it. I also happen to be a long time owner of an '84 Carrera that's set up to be a bit sportier than stock, so my feeling is the 996 has the same dynamics as the older Carrera (which I like, btw) but has limits far beyond the older car's, so I consider it to be a ***** cat and easily controllable. In fact, I happen to like the tail-happiness of the car and the ability to easily "rotate" the car at will on a track. I've driven my wife's 2007 Cayman on track and I have to say that I'm not a big fan of the PSM in her car because just as I'm starting to get her to rotate a little, the system kicks in and kind of snaps it back in line. It feels unnatural to me.

Personally, I consider the lack of PSM to be a non-issue when considering the purchase of one of these cars.

dresler

General comments not aimed at anyone in particular..
ABS useless?? PSM not as necessary with a skilled driver? Let me know how you manage to manually apply the brake on just one wheel to correct the start of a bad slide. These technologies advance the state of driving. If you are on the track, turn it off. On the street? Not even close.

Ray S

+1 I have always found the 996 to be very controllable. In an oversteer situation the car is pretty easy to catch (much easier than my Boxster)

There is more than one way to correct a slide. In my experience oversteer is very easy to catch in the 996 with a quick correction. Additionally, having PSM on is no guarantee that it (PSM) can catch a "bad slide". A few minutes in a snow covered lot is all one needs to determine that the system can be overwhelmed.

Don't get me wrong, I think PSM is a great system. That being said it is by no means "necessary" IMHO.

Benjamin Choi

I agree with Ray that it's not necessary, but I'd rather have it than not just so that when it comes time to sell, it's not a neg on the car because it'll rarely if ever be a neg to have it.

That's it.

Jackel

I have had drivers' training/racing courses before and just did my first autocross (loads of fun). Learning the limits of a rear weight bais, AWD car with PSM was a lot different than front weight bais, RWD, with no "driving aids". If you were in snow or rain and pushing it, not having PSM would be a deal breaker. Since you are not, its nice to have but....

I find I can go pretty fast with it on. Besides, it'll just turn itself back on if I brake hard, right? (or does ABS actually have to engage?)

htny

since I've really only put miles on this car with no PSM (to my knowledge) in sunny California and some desert runs out west, I've only had it in rain about 5 or 6 times (rainiest january in LA history or something)

Once in a real proper cars-rolling-into-ditches-10 o'clock news torrential downpour. I did what I do in every other 300+ bhp RWD german car I own.

I slowed down.

jasper

Yep - just checking in on this thread.....I don't have PSM, don't want it, don't miss it. I'll stop short of saying it's for girls but honestly there hasn't been a moment yet where I wished I'd had it.

On the street I use a couple of tricks I call "steering input" and throttle conrol" to manage the car's behaviour. On the track it's all about trail braking and throttle steering is't it.

In Geoffery's case (996gfr) it's true I may have suggested he turn his PSM off, but then he used waayy too much throttle in an off camber turn in the wet...and he didnt anticipate with the steering either. I saw it coming... It wasn't the car's fault.