rmillnj

Actually having seen the kinds of hits a Porsche can take, I would much rather be in a Porsche in an accident than many other cars. Of course you get hit by a truck, you are in a bit of trouble.

Benjamin Choi

The S2000 can take crazy hits as well and it's a smaller, lighter car.

All I'm saying is to use this as some sort of advantage over the other makes/models is... absurd.

htny

I think the striking thing (see page 3 of the thread on 997 forum) is the advances which the Chevys and AMGs have made in creating more power from less dry engine weight in their atmospheric engines over the past 10-15 years. They were all at parity on their base motors, about 50% power to engine weight. Porsche made a major step up from 94 to 2002 in this regard by increasing specific output, but has been very lax by comparison over the past few years. The competition has really stepped it up though, not by adding weight, and not necessarily by maximizing specific output, but by utilizing increasingly lighter weight head and connecting rod and valvetrain technology, more aggressive breathing, and more bore/stroke in the same blocks. All of this can be had in a GT3, which if I were a track guy I'd take over a CLK63 black or Z06 any day of the week because hey guys it's fast there. The Z06 LS7 is cheap cheap cheap, I think <$20K in crate, the AMG and GT3 motors have to be somewhat equivalent, figuring 40s to 60s, with much more margin for the manufacturer.

That's the measure to me in this whole discussion, not specific output, which porsche does well in M97 X51 trim ~100bhp per liter, but bhp to engine dry weight. I know that flat six packaging will dictate diferences, but when I see AMG making 525bhp from 430lbs of motor, and BMW 400+ from a pretty light V8, regardless of the fudge factors for dry/wet accessories, I think Porsche will likely have to step up the base carrera's torque/horsepower in the next few years.

Who knows though? The fuel crisis of the 70s crippled the corvettes and other contestants in the 60s horsepower wars, and it happened very suddenly. Porsche emerged a giant killer. If something similar happens over the next couple of years (non-zero probability) then we may not be crying about 320ish horsepower, might b return of the giant killer.

I'm not crying today either, in fact the reason I bought a 996 C2 over a 997 C2 was exactly because I didn't want to pay so much more (at the time) for what I considered a nominal performance improvement on the base model, and finding a Carrera S with X51 in my color was looking like a depreciation nightmare. All in all,while I don't feel the base 997 powerplant is enough of an improvement to justify personally buying one, tens of thousands of other people have voted otherwise with their hard earned. If HP figures are marketing tools, I don't think the 911 needs them for most of its target market, and for those who want serious power, hey speed costs money and Porsche can legitimately ask, how fast do you want to go?

tooloud10

No, they absolutely DO count. I wouldn't dream of trying to stick an adult couple in the back of any car I bought to use like I do my 911, but it was absolutely necessary that I can get my small child in there. When my kid gets older and can ride in the front seat, I'll be getting rid of the 911 to get something a little more hardcore, i.e. Exige S or the like.

I only considered cars with rear seats when shopping, and the 911's were not only good enough to make my short list, it actually won the contest (over RX-8, Evo, and STi).

Benjamin Choi

True true I guess I was looking at it from a bachelor's perspective where they absolutely DO NOT count. But even if I was lucky enough to be a father, I wouldn't drive them in the 911.

ls911

At a bachelor's time of desperation you do have the option of dropping the seats down..

I like them to throw groceries in back, duffle bags etc. It is a nice bonus to have but not a difference maker for me.

wyo996

Back to the original question, of coarse most of us on this forum want more hp. At least 1/3 of the posts here and other similar forums are on increased hp, speed, performance. Exhausts, intakes, plenums, superchargers, etc. are all driven by our desire to obtain more hp, eg fun. More is better, any way you look at it. My old E39 M5 was faster than my C4S untill I supercharged. Now its fast enough, almost. Will

Benjamin Choi

I actually "raced" my bud in his lightly modified E39 M5 at hwy speeds and it was pretty even steven.

How's the SC working out for you?

Bob Rouleau

You can call the point "dumb". A bit impolite IMO.

Having seen a number of nasty accidents on the track, if I had to crash, I would rather be in a 911 than in an Elise. Part of the weight in a 911 (or almost any modern German car for that matter) is related to safety.

Regards

ls911

The 996 is one of the best balanced DD sports cars to be had. With that said I also desire more and in the future plan on making some conservative moves to get that bump in hp, minor as it may be.
Personally I am not one to go the SC route, would rather sell and get a TT

Ray S

Not true, much of what makes the 996 feel so lithe and nimble compared to other cars is it's (relatively) light weight. Unfortunately, the 997 is way up compared to the 996 (in spite of the fact that they removed the spare tire).

Why????...Porsche threw a bunch of crap in the car, that's why. Do we really need an electronic wart (stopwatch) right in the middle of the dash!! Then there's neon glowing door sills, power everything, rain sensing wipers, parking sensors, etc..

IMHO, you can keep all that heavy luxury crap and electronic gizmos that BMW, Audi, and others are sticking in their cars. These are sports cars for crying out loud!

Finally, the rear seats in the 996 are not useless. I've gone on double dates in my car (men in front, ladies in the rear). If you can't get a date back there Ben she's fat......

htny

Very much agreed RE: bachelorhood part, but still I've shoehorned some shorties into the back of 911s (easier in the cabs, probably better to TAKE a cab but hey).

But why not drive kids in the (modern) 911? It's gotta be more crashworthy than most normal cars, especially the ones I remember being in as a kid, and the passenger area in the rear is about as far as you can get from the fenders in the event of a side impact. I have to say the worst injuries I've seen and heard of from auto accidents involve SUV rollovers, which one might think would be the safest way to go.

steve germany

Ben,

Wait till you get older and meet a woman with small children - the 911 will be close to a sex toy.

nycebo

Ditto.

Benjamin Choi

as a moderator, i would think you'd actually read beyond the post i posted and go back to what tooloud wrote out.

again, excuses/excuses. ALL US cars have to conform to the very same set of safety regs. my point is, it sucks to be in an accident period elise or 911 or suburban suv.