newton982

Are you trying to be witty? Bravo .... good for you!

I'm coming from the perspspective of owning a Turbo and a Carrera. The question I posed is simply to get your opinion ... nothing else. I like both cars .... if anyone shares my sentiment ... great, if not I'd be interested to hear why you think differently.

I gather you'd prefer not to go the 997 forum, so I'll post the original question in this thread as a separate message.

newton982

Here's the original question I posted:

I'm interested in your honest opinion on whether you think the Carrera and Carrera S are underpowered by todays standards.

I currently have a 2002 Turbo and 2002 Carrera. As I recently posted, I think the Carrera is an incredible car and I'm partial to it in many ways. I love the way it drives, looks and it's overall feel. In my opinion it's sleek, elegant and somewhat discreet. However, by todays standards I think it's just a little under-powered. I recently tried the 997 Carrera S but although it looked nicer and sounded better, on the street I just didn't feel there was a HUGE difference in performance from my 02 Carrera (I'm sure more differences will come out on the track) ... not meant to be inflamattory, just my opinion from my test drives.

I realize Porsche's have different attributes than all-out speed and hp, but I do think Porsche needs to do something with the baseline Carrera's to make them more of a performance benchmark - at least against M3s, RS4s and the like. I believe Ferrari faced a similar problem years ago and responded with a solid entry level car - the F430, that can hold it's own with almost anything out there.

Duane993

My 70 Hemi Cuda was under powered against LS7 crate motor Vette. It's all relative.

JDSStudios

Straight answer: I think they are underpowered, regardless comparison.
Just what I like - a super fast car, high powered.

I like your question, and I do not find it vague * smiles *

If I had a choice between a Porsche Carrera 996 C4S with 320 Hp, 600 Hp or 900 Hp from
factory, I would not hesitate in choosing the 900 Hp car- all else being equal.

Not only I feel 911 s should have more HP, I think as we head into the future they will,
and should.
John

jasper

I had an acquaintance make a similar remark a while ago. He has a 996, but doesn't drive it for sport,only for show. He wanted more horsepower so he could brag to his buddies, and maybe do the odd stoplight dragrace.

It's a question of balance. In my opininion my 2002 996 has just the right amount of power for the chassis. If I was to mod the suspension and maybe up the brakes, then a little more power would be justified. The Porsche engineers know what they're doing mate...

I for one don't need a powerful engine to go fast. I had a 1986 Jetta for a while - 76 horsepower. It needed new struts, so I put in some very firm sport things. I got more speeding tickets in that car (way to many in fact) than any other car I'd ever owned. I kept my foot deep in it absolutely everywhere I went. It topped out at 100 mph...fast enough for North America.

You want to go fast, put your foot down and bloody leave it down. You'll soon realize the 996 is plenty powerful.

newton982

I do agree that the Carrera (996 and 997) are both great cars - quick, well balanced, and with a timeless beauty that's hard to find in most other cars.

I think Porsche has a fantastic history and should in some ways should be paving the way for others to follow. The 911 epitomizes the classic image of Porsche I think it should be a clear benchmark in its class/price point. I'm not sure it is anymore. It's good but not necessarily great at everything .... arguably even in the handling dept many people I know fork out an extra 3-4K on the suspension. If you spend 80K on a car (new), that's just not right in my books.

I good friend of mine (die-hard Porsche guy) recently drove the E92 M3 and put his deposit down for earliest delivery. That really made me think about the 911s (more specifically the 997s) standing amongst similarly priced sports/GT cars. Haven't done any research on this - but from what I hear the E92 M3 trumps the base 997 in EVERY performance category (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Finally, a hypothetical for you - If Porsche sent out a campaign saying "we're going to install a power pack to bump up hp by say 35hp," would anyone refuse and say no thanks, I have enough as is?

rotokim

My '99 996 is plenty fast. I'll never need more power - never. I might want more power, but that would just be for my ego. I don't race, and I don't have an autobahn.

red996

I think that the 996 carrera has just the right amount of useable power.
What I mean by that is in most conditions it's good. Because of the cars handling abilty in city driving you car carry more speed into corners. I have had a couple of vette's, C4 and C5. I found that yea these cars had plenty of straight line power, but under hard cornering they were a real handful. I can't tell you how many corners I went through sideways in those vettes. More power is secondary to cornering abilty. The 996 has a good combination of power and cornering abilty. Thats what makes it such a great car overall.

arr0gant

Standard 911's have always had very decent amount of power for their NA flat six's when compared to comparable cars, such as M3 and the like. They continue to do this with the 997 and 997S. This formula works in spades, as Porsche has so many other great attributes, so in the end, higher powered cars just can't compare overall.

Comparing yesterdays 996 to today's cars, IE the new M3, S4 etc... of course they are underpowered, that simply isn't a fair comparison.

That said, if you want all this great package that Porsche is AND MAD power, you'll have to pony up and buy a Turbo. This in MY book is having your cake AND eating it too.

This section of the forum has changed SO much since I got here, it seems as these cars become cheaper and more attainable, people don't appreciate them the same way as the original buyers did and it's very obvious. I guess it's expected and normal. My point is, had you bought a '99 911 Carrera back in '99 when it was new, this question never would have been posed, as that car would have fulfilled ever amount of desire you had.

jimq

One of mine is and one isnt

harris

a 911 underpower????

compare 964 with M3 E36....964 wins.....(964 has less power Vs to an M3)

993 with M3......again...993 has less power and again wins....

996 has 300 ps and later on 320 Vs to M3 343 Ps...again 911 wins...

997 S Vs M3 420 Ps....same .....

this a small comparison between Porsche and BMW and I am not trying to compare the 2 brands...

I am just trying to show that in any cae what matters is the way that a car delivers the power and not the peak power of it


harris

p.s again if you go to turbo 911 ....... always turbo 911's had less power to any of their rivals....and again turbo 911 were faster



in general I think though that Carreras.....were and are just fine....

newton982

Aside from the Carrera, I do have a Turbo It's the silver car on the left of my avatar.

But to follow on your point, how does a 997 Carrera (or Carrera S for that matter) compare to an E92 M3 ... both current model cars. I'm not sure of the answer to this one, but I'm guessing they are going to be very close in perfomance - acceleration, handling etc, with the M3 possibly having the edge.

My opinion is that with its rich heritage (and arguably premium pricing), Porsche should work to make the base 911 the clear leader in its class and I'm not so sure it is right now compared to the other $80K +/- sports and gt cars.

It's interesting to read the responses. In general it appears most people (both here and in the 997 forum) think the 911 is adequately powered with most defficiencies overcome in a track setting. If this sentiment is shared amongst the broader segment of customers who purchase 911s, I imagine Porsche will continue to make incrementally small power increases in the 911 as the generations change. I suppose that's why they offer a Turbo also. Hopefully, they will at least consider lightening the base 911 at some point.

I started this thread not to argue one way or the other, more to get other folks perspectives.

Riad

Yes, I'm trying to be witty.

Why are people obsessed with HP? My C4S Cab goes more than fast enough for any street legal road in the US.

Would more HP get you to safer passing speed?

Would more HP get you passed the 196mph top speed of the Turbo?

Why do you need any more power than what the Turbo has to offer if you're not competitively racing?

What's your goal, your end game?

No, the 911 Turbo, C2, C4, C4S have all the power they need to deliver an exhilarating driving experience.

FLY996

I think it's more a question of price/performance. If I had paid over $70k for a new '03 C2 I would have felt that performance was significantly less than price. When I purchase it used at 1/2 that price I feel a lot better about the performance however still I feel the stock C2 is underpowered by ~50hp.

K996

Yeah that's really the gist of it, isn't it? At $70k I would definitely walk away from it but at $35 it was much more competitive.

I knew when buying my used '99 that even at only 4 years old it really wasn't the best price/performance bargain on the market. I'm still satisfied with my decision.

Definitely not the most practical car(M3/AMG/CTS), or bang for the buck(Vette/Subie), or most powerful but it does a lot of things reasonably well and since Porsche has been evolutionary in their styling it actually looks a lot newer than it is. People are honestly surprised when I tell them the car is 9 years old.

Would I like more HP? more Torque? Absolutely, hands down that would be fantastic. With about 50 more horsepower it would feel very different and be an even more well-rounded car. Yeah it's already more than fast enough for the street but so is a base model Civic. So what. If Porsche had had that attitude they wouldn't have had to increase the power from the 1984 models, right?

Even more than power I wish they'd go on a weight loss program, it isn't terrible but they started porking up over the years. If the base C2 was sitting at 2400 lbs wet it would be in a different league altogether and make the Turbo a friggin rocketship.

Today there are a lot more fast sedans and coupes out there in the same general price space. Of course nothing else is a 911 (whatever that may mean to you) but this isn't 1985 when the choices for high performance cars were limited to American sleds, lower performing Japanese marques or tempermental English brands.