Coilover Advice
03-21-2008, 01:06 PM
#17
Banned
i find it laughable street pimp carreras are coming in here saying their JICs are great when Ray's needs/driving abilities demand far more than nice street coils. c'mon guys ! he ALREADY HAS a great street setup in the x74s! wake up
03-21-2008, 03:33 PM
#19
Banned
03-21-2008, 04:32 PM
#20
Ironman 140.6
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I'm curious, Ray. I look at your avatar: a very nice example of a street 911. I look at your sig: an enviable example of a track 986. I know the X73/X74 suspension: Unless your streets are glass smooth, they are just barely streetable. With upgrading from them, are you now saying you will have 2 track dedicated cars?
I like my x74 but, i'd like to be able to play around with the dampening, rebound, and ride height. I want to turn the car into a full on race car, but not just yet, so I want something that is still "streetable" (I'm willing to deal with almost race harsh on the street).
It sounds like JRZ's and KW V3's may fit that bill (from what I'm reading on this thread). Has anyone here used the KW V3's or JRZ's on the street? Would Moton's just be stupid on the street?
03-21-2008, 04:45 PM
#21
Banned
dude ray you bag on pss9s being too soft for some reason but then somehow you think the JRZs or even the KW3s are better.
bro for what you need, go big or stay with what you got. but yea, the ride height thing sucks about the x73.
bro for what you need, go big or stay with what you got. but yea, the ride height thing sucks about the x73.
03-21-2008, 05:26 PM
#22
Ironman 140.6
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How do they all compare???
03-21-2008, 05:54 PM
#23
Banned
JimB, Audion30s, Chads
I'd lean on these guys and they all agree on JRZs and if you want to spend more, then MOTONS you cannot go wrong.
Seriously, leave the KW3s for the E46 M3 fan boy that is I, Ben Choi.
I seriously don't think you're making a jump of any kind by going with these street coilover solutions over the X74. And with the PSS9s, perhaps you rode on a set that was old, on a softer setting, whatever. I know my PSS9s feel stiffer than the TC Klines I had on my Bimmer.
If I was riding on 18s and didn't care for height adjustability, I'd get the X74 over the aftermarket stuff like you.
I'd lean on these guys and they all agree on JRZs and if you want to spend more, then MOTONS you cannot go wrong.
Seriously, leave the KW3s for the E46 M3 fan boy that is I, Ben Choi.
I seriously don't think you're making a jump of any kind by going with these street coilover solutions over the X74. And with the PSS9s, perhaps you rode on a set that was old, on a softer setting, whatever. I know my PSS9s feel stiffer than the TC Klines I had on my Bimmer.If I was riding on 18s and didn't care for height adjustability, I'd get the X74 over the aftermarket stuff like you.
03-22-2008, 07:56 AM
#24
No, you wake up and re-read his original post!!!
03-22-2008, 12:55 PM
#25
Racer
Ray,
One benefit of the JRZ/Moton route is that you can have the shocks revalved to support a variety of spring rates. If you want, you can start with a softer spring rate while the car is a street car but when you begin to transform it into a race car you can have the shocks revalved and install a stiffer spring set. Many racers use JRZs and Motons among other solutions. I understand that Motons require a bit less maintenance than JRZs. I have JRZs and have been very happy with them but I have a race shop locally to provide set-up support.
My club racer is still street legal (barely) and I drive it to the shop occasionally. It's tolerable when I adjust the bump/compression settings.
-KJ
One benefit of the JRZ/Moton route is that you can have the shocks revalved to support a variety of spring rates. If you want, you can start with a softer spring rate while the car is a street car but when you begin to transform it into a race car you can have the shocks revalved and install a stiffer spring set. Many racers use JRZs and Motons among other solutions. I understand that Motons require a bit less maintenance than JRZs. I have JRZs and have been very happy with them but I have a race shop locally to provide set-up support.
My club racer is still street legal (barely) and I drive it to the shop occasionally. It's tolerable when I adjust the bump/compression settings.
-KJ
03-25-2008, 10:38 AM
#26
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I`ve KW variant 3 with GT3 front control arms and H&R sway bars. All I can say is that variant 3 is excellent! I`ve some experience about Bilstein & H&R suspensions in 21st century Porsches and this is no doubt the best setup I have driven so far. Springs are rear 515 and front progressive. Pretty stiff but not that bad even in everyday use. A bit stiffer and uncomfortable than row 030 but not bad at all I (track driver) think. Dampers are the best part of this kit. Very high quality and performance. Manthey Motors have MM specs Variant 3 with a little stiffer springs and matching dampers if you wan`t to go stiffer than 515 rear.
Edit: I`ve no experience about x74, jrz or motons
Edit: I`ve no experience about x74, jrz or motons
03-25-2008, 10:45 AM
#27
Race Car
Ray,
I kinda lost track of this thread sorry. I've riden in a Moton Equipped car (M3 not a 996) and as KJ already stated the nice part about the high end dampers is there's such a large range of adjustability that you can back off the compression and rebound drastically on the street and make for a very tollerable ride.
Back to my personal experience, the M3 I rode in weighed right at 3100 lbs and had 900/1000 lb springs and the ride was firm but not punishing...probably not much different than how your stock X74 rides. However turn up the dampers and it's a night and day difference...one that you don't want to have on the street.
I swear my H&R clubsports with 455/915 rates ride about the same as the X74 equipped car that I nearly bought prior to finding my red car, but again I don't think my suspension is really much better than what you've already got...same with the KW V3's...not that they're bad...but they're only slightly "better" than what's already on your car.
Andy
I kinda lost track of this thread sorry. I've riden in a Moton Equipped car (M3 not a 996) and as KJ already stated the nice part about the high end dampers is there's such a large range of adjustability that you can back off the compression and rebound drastically on the street and make for a very tollerable ride.
Back to my personal experience, the M3 I rode in weighed right at 3100 lbs and had 900/1000 lb springs and the ride was firm but not punishing...probably not much different than how your stock X74 rides. However turn up the dampers and it's a night and day difference...one that you don't want to have on the street.
I swear my H&R clubsports with 455/915 rates ride about the same as the X74 equipped car that I nearly bought prior to finding my red car, but again I don't think my suspension is really much better than what you've already got...same with the KW V3's...not that they're bad...but they're only slightly "better" than what's already on your car.
Andy
03-25-2008, 11:32 PM
#28
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Ray,
Andy is spot on.
Unless you are going to drive the car in a lot of bad weather you sould skip all the intermediate street stuff and go straight to real race dampers, the minimum of which is the JRZ RS or Moton Club Sport setup and then JRZ/Moton/Ohlins Motorsport dampers after that. Ohlilns makes a better damper but JRZ and Moton are easier to get support for. If you are really feeling spendy contact Angelo at ANZE Engineering he can custom build you a sweet set of dampers with Penske guts that will be better than anything you can imagine.
The biggest advantage to the double and triple adjustable dampers is the ability to adjust the damping characteristics. If they are valved correctly you can get luxury car ride quality on street tires and race track perfection all from the same set of dampers. If they are valved wrong it will be a total nightmare which is why setup help is important.
Andy is spot on.
Unless you are going to drive the car in a lot of bad weather you sould skip all the intermediate street stuff and go straight to real race dampers, the minimum of which is the JRZ RS or Moton Club Sport setup and then JRZ/Moton/Ohlins Motorsport dampers after that. Ohlilns makes a better damper but JRZ and Moton are easier to get support for. If you are really feeling spendy contact Angelo at ANZE Engineering he can custom build you a sweet set of dampers with Penske guts that will be better than anything you can imagine.
The biggest advantage to the double and triple adjustable dampers is the ability to adjust the damping characteristics. If they are valved correctly you can get luxury car ride quality on street tires and race track perfection all from the same set of dampers. If they are valved wrong it will be a total nightmare which is why setup help is important.
03-26-2008, 11:44 AM
#30
Banned
What about me?
Again, total novice here, but going by what a seriously crazy dedicated track guy said (www.nsxfiles.com) who actually did wheel-to-wheel racing, he was sharing with us how suspension tuning is black magic and very, very few people know wtf they're doing.
I believe he ran Penskes or something crazy expensive like that (ex-Microsoft guy, retired) on his supercharged NSX.
I'm not sure all this adjustability is necessarily a good thing, but I stick my original advice to go big (Motons/JRZs/Ohlins) or stay home (X74).
Again, total novice here, but going by what a seriously crazy dedicated track guy said (www.nsxfiles.com) who actually did wheel-to-wheel racing, he was sharing with us how suspension tuning is black magic and very, very few people know wtf they're doing.
I believe he ran Penskes or something crazy expensive like that (ex-Microsoft guy, retired) on his supercharged NSX.
I'm not sure all this adjustability is necessarily a good thing, but I stick my original advice to go big (Motons/JRZs/Ohlins) or stay home (X74).
Ray,
Andy is spot on.
Unless you are going to drive the car in a lot of bad weather you sould skip all the intermediate street stuff and go straight to real race dampers, the minimum of which is the JRZ RS or Moton Club Sport setup and then JRZ/Moton/Ohlins Motorsport dampers after that. Ohlilns makes a better damper but JRZ and Moton are easier to get support for. If you are really feeling spendy contact Angelo at ANZE Engineering he can custom build you a sweet set of dampers with Penske guts that will be better than anything you can imagine.
The biggest advantage to the double and triple adjustable dampers is the ability to adjust the damping characteristics. If they are valved correctly you can get luxury car ride quality on street tires and race track perfection all from the same set of dampers. If they are valved wrong it will be a total nightmare which is why setup help is important.
Andy is spot on.
Unless you are going to drive the car in a lot of bad weather you sould skip all the intermediate street stuff and go straight to real race dampers, the minimum of which is the JRZ RS or Moton Club Sport setup and then JRZ/Moton/Ohlins Motorsport dampers after that. Ohlilns makes a better damper but JRZ and Moton are easier to get support for. If you are really feeling spendy contact Angelo at ANZE Engineering he can custom build you a sweet set of dampers with Penske guts that will be better than anything you can imagine.
The biggest advantage to the double and triple adjustable dampers is the ability to adjust the damping characteristics. If they are valved correctly you can get luxury car ride quality on street tires and race track perfection all from the same set of dampers. If they are valved wrong it will be a total nightmare which is why setup help is important.