New shifter option
12-26-2007, 03:01 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
The link to the 996 GT2/GT3 forum is confusing.
The part number for the shift shown on the white sticker in the first post is 997 424 010 00. Where you see the metal plate where the 4 screws there is black plastic. That is the standard 997/987/997 GT3 shift. It is not a short shift.
The short shift for the 997/987 series has blue plastic. There is a picture of the blue plastic short shift in the thread but the guy gives out the part number for the standard black shift. The short shift is 997 424 983 00.
I don't know why anyone would want to put the standard 997 series shift in a 996/986.
The 997 series short shift works in a 996/986. A local Boxster owner with a 2001 S put in the 997 short shift 2 years ago and it worked fine. It is not as short as a B&M.
This pic is the standard white plastic 996/986 shift, and the blue plastic one is the 997 series short shift.
The part number for the shift shown on the white sticker in the first post is 997 424 010 00. Where you see the metal plate where the 4 screws there is black plastic. That is the standard 997/987/997 GT3 shift. It is not a short shift.
The short shift for the 997/987 series has blue plastic. There is a picture of the blue plastic short shift in the thread but the guy gives out the part number for the standard black shift. The short shift is 997 424 983 00.
I don't know why anyone would want to put the standard 997 series shift in a 996/986.
The 997 series short shift works in a 996/986. A local Boxster owner with a 2001 S put in the 997 short shift 2 years ago and it worked fine. It is not as short as a B&M.
This pic is the standard white plastic 996/986 shift, and the blue plastic one is the 997 series short shift.
The white one is the standard 997 shifter and also works in a 996 C2.
So the blue one is short, but is the white one shorter than the stock 996 C2 shifter?
12-26-2007, 03:02 PM
#17
Racer
Thread Starter
PS. I was poking around and have seen a figure of a 30% reduction in shift length with the standard 997 over the standard 996 shifters...which sounds about right to me based on my observations....can anyone reliably confirm that info?
12-26-2007, 03:05 PM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
See the post I put up while you were posting this....I have seen other people mention the 997 standard shift to be 30% shorter than the 996 standard shift, but I have not seen Porsche documentation myself to confirm.
12-26-2007, 03:18 PM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
The link to the 996 GT2/GT3 forum is confusing.
The part number for the shift shown on the white sticker in the first post is 997 424 010 00. Where you see the metal plate where the 4 screws there is black plastic. That is the standard 997/987/997 GT3 shift. It is not a short shift.
The short shift for the 997/987 series has blue plastic. There is a picture of the blue plastic short shift in the thread but the guy gives out the part number for the standard black shift. The short shift is 997 424 983 00.
The part number for the shift shown on the white sticker in the first post is 997 424 010 00. Where you see the metal plate where the 4 screws there is black plastic. That is the standard 997/987/997 GT3 shift. It is not a short shift.
The short shift for the 997/987 series has blue plastic. There is a picture of the blue plastic short shift in the thread but the guy gives out the part number for the standard black shift. The short shift is 997 424 983 00.
12-26-2007, 03:24 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
No....my take is the white one in the picture Tool Pants posted is the stock 996 shifter. The stock 997 shifter is in the picture linked to in the original post. It looks to be constructed better than the 996 shifter imo.
See the post I put up while you were posting this....I have seen other people mention the 997 standard shift to be 30% shorter than the 996 standard shift, but I have not seen Porsche documentation myself to confirm.
See the post I put up while you were posting this....I have seen other people mention the 997 standard shift to be 30% shorter than the 996 standard shift, but I have not seen Porsche documentation myself to confirm.
So what part number did you install then?
12-26-2007, 03:46 PM
#21
Racer
Thread Starter
I can see how it is confusing at this point 
I installed the 997.424.010.00 which is the standard shifter for 997 and 997 GT3 cars.
Quick Edit:
Per a brochure from the 997 that I dug up, it looks like they claim a 15% reduction in throw with the standard 997 shifter over the standard 996 shifter. I would bet this will put you right in between the standard 996 and the B&M SSK 996 shifter throw length....a nice comprimise imo.
I installed the 997.424.010.00 which is the standard shifter for 997 and 997 GT3 cars.
Quick Edit:
Per a brochure from the 997 that I dug up, it looks like they claim a 15% reduction in throw with the standard 997 shifter over the standard 996 shifter. I would bet this will put you right in between the standard 996 and the B&M SSK 996 shifter throw length....a nice comprimise imo.
Last edited by bk12; 12-28-2007 at 07:31 PM.
12-26-2007, 06:06 PM
#22
Drifting
My first picture shows the 997/987 series short shift (blue) and the standard 996/986 shift (white).
In the picture below the top shift is the standard 997/987 series standard shift (black) with part number 997 424 010 00. This is not a short shifter. This is the standard shift used on the 987, 997, 997 GT3, and turbo. I cannot see how this shift from a 997 put into a 996/986 series would do anything.
I am a Boxster guy for almost 9 years. The transmissions used on the old 986s are different than a 987 - the new transmissions have a shorter shift throw, but it is not because of the shift lever, it is because the 987 uses different transmissions. I cannot see how taking the standard 987 shift and putting it into a 986 would do anything.
I think the 996 transmissions were made by Getrag, and the 997s by Aisin. I do not know who makes the 997 GT3 transmission.
I have no proof - just common sense. I cannot see how replacing the standard 996 shift with the standard 997 shift would do anything, as neither is a short shift. The fact the standard 997 series shift is used on a 997 GT3 means nothing, as I doubt a 997 GT3 transmission is the same as that used on the 996 C2/C4. If I put the standard 997 GT3 shift in a 987 Boxster it is not going to do anything, as the shifts are the same, but it is the transmissions that are different.
In the picture below, ignore the bottom shift. It is just the standard 996/986 shift (white).
I actually took this picture to show that I could not see any real functional difference between the standard 997/996 shifts.
In the picture below the top shift is the standard 997/987 series standard shift (black) with part number 997 424 010 00. This is not a short shifter. This is the standard shift used on the 987, 997, 997 GT3, and turbo. I cannot see how this shift from a 997 put into a 996/986 series would do anything.
I am a Boxster guy for almost 9 years. The transmissions used on the old 986s are different than a 987 - the new transmissions have a shorter shift throw, but it is not because of the shift lever, it is because the 987 uses different transmissions. I cannot see how taking the standard 987 shift and putting it into a 986 would do anything.
I think the 996 transmissions were made by Getrag, and the 997s by Aisin. I do not know who makes the 997 GT3 transmission.
I have no proof - just common sense. I cannot see how replacing the standard 996 shift with the standard 997 shift would do anything, as neither is a short shift. The fact the standard 997 series shift is used on a 997 GT3 means nothing, as I doubt a 997 GT3 transmission is the same as that used on the 996 C2/C4. If I put the standard 997 GT3 shift in a 987 Boxster it is not going to do anything, as the shifts are the same, but it is the transmissions that are different.
In the picture below, ignore the bottom shift. It is just the standard 996/986 shift (white).
I actually took this picture to show that I could not see any real functional difference between the standard 997/996 shifts.
Last edited by Tool Pants; 01-04-2008 at 02:07 PM.
12-26-2007, 08:24 PM
#23
Racer
Thread Starter
My first picture shows the 997/987 series short shift (blue) and the standard 996/986 shift (white).
In the picture below the top shift is the standard 997/987 series standard shift (black) with part number 997 424 010 00. This is not a short shifter. This is the standard shift used on the 987, 997, 997 GT3, and turbo. I cannot see how this shift from a 997 put into a 996/986 series would do anything.
I am a Boxster guy for almost 9 years. The transmissions used on the old 986s are different than a 987 - the new transmissions have a shorter shift throw, but it is not because of the shift lever, it is because the 987 uses different transmissions. I cannot see how taking the standard 987 shift and putting it into a 986 would do anything.
I think the 996 transmissions were made by Getrag, and the 997s by Aisin. I do not know who makes the 997 GT3 transmission.
I have no proof - just common sense. I cannot see how replacing the standard 996 shift with the standard 997 shift would do anything, as neither is a short shift. The fact the standard 997 series shift is used on a 997 GT3 means nothing, as I doubt a 997 GT3 transmission is the same as that used on the 996 C2/C4. If I put the standard 997 GT3 shift in a 987 Boxster it is not going to do anything, as the shifts are the same, but it is the transmissions that are different.
In the picture below, ignore the bottom shift. It is just the standard 996/986 shift (white).
I actually took this picture to show that I could not see any real functional difference between the standard 997/996 shifts.
In the picture below the top shift is the standard 997/987 series standard shift (black) with part number 997 424 010 00. This is not a short shifter. This is the standard shift used on the 987, 997, 997 GT3, and turbo. I cannot see how this shift from a 997 put into a 996/986 series would do anything.
I am a Boxster guy for almost 9 years. The transmissions used on the old 986s are different than a 987 - the new transmissions have a shorter shift throw, but it is not because of the shift lever, it is because the 987 uses different transmissions. I cannot see how taking the standard 987 shift and putting it into a 986 would do anything.
I think the 996 transmissions were made by Getrag, and the 997s by Aisin. I do not know who makes the 997 GT3 transmission.
I have no proof - just common sense. I cannot see how replacing the standard 996 shift with the standard 997 shift would do anything, as neither is a short shift. The fact the standard 997 series shift is used on a 997 GT3 means nothing, as I doubt a 997 GT3 transmission is the same as that used on the 996 C2/C4. If I put the standard 997 GT3 shift in a 987 Boxster it is not going to do anything, as the shifts are the same, but it is the transmissions that are different.
In the picture below, ignore the bottom shift. It is just the standard 996/986 shift (white).
I actually took this picture to show that I could not see any real functional difference between the standard 997/996 shifts.
I really am just trying to have a discussion to understand....I already learned a lot by pouring through the assembly drawings of the four cars and discovering the commonalities between the different series and models.That being said, I understand your points, but I have gone back to back with a stock 996 shifter and mine feels shorter, and smoother...qualitative I know..and beside that, the 997 short shift looks similar to the 997 standard shift as well....so I am not sure what your pictures prove. Anyway, while I haven't measured and compared the relationship of the key shift assembly points in the two systems, I was told that the plane that the cables approach the shifter on has changed, and that is what the 997 shifter does to make things smoother. You look like you have both....can you verify that the z-axis height of the ball coming from the handle and pivot are at the same point from the base on both series? If I had one of each handy, I would take a look so I could find out myself....I am really curious.
For instance, the barrel connector/linkage that the shifter cable plugs into is the same exact part number on all 996s and 997s. If the shifter had the exact same geometry, why did I have a significant change in where the cables snapped back into when I swapped to the 997 shifter (and yes, both were centered with tool)? The 996 B&M SSK snapped into the same spot...the 997 was clearly different. I wish I had CAD data for the two parts to examine this claim that the 997 has a better geometry that allows a better shift (shorter and smoother), but I don't....so I am basing my 2 cents on my qualitative comparisons. Regardless of any change on the part discussed, I can't believe that two boxes that look similar in a picture couldn't possibly behave differently based on what happens from the time the cables reach that assembly to the time it terminates.
If the transmission designs between the 996 and 997 had such an effect on shift throw, why didn't B&M re-design their kit for the 997 series? I would think they did some research to come up with what they felt was an optimal design for the 996, somehow I think if the transmission in the 997 was responsible for a 15% shorter throw and different internal shift mechanism, that they would have come out with a new part? I think Porsche had a different part #, but I would not be shocked if that was a $$/supplier choice driven decision more than a performance variation.
Regardless of the manufacturer, I didn't think there were worlds of difference between the fundamentals of the 996 transmission and 997 transmission design, but you have me here....I really don't know.
Anyway, maybe me and the other 10s of people that swapped are imagining things....it is possible. I am really curious at this point, in the meantime, I will be enjoying my perceived smoother shifting setup
12-26-2007, 08:39 PM
#25
Racer
Thread Starter
Also, regarding internal transmission differences being the source of the shorter shift throw and feel, the only 997 specific P/Ns in that transmission are a few of the gears....the rest are all 996 part #s, or common 999 numbers....would be suprised if there were all that many changes to the fundamental layout of the 997 transmission vs. the 996, but again, please let me know if there is....I really would like to know.
12-26-2007, 09:32 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
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I posted this on the GT3 Forum, in the 997 GT3 shifter thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-gt3-forum/330742-997-gt3-shifter.html
"I'm interested in installing one of these shifters in my 2001 996 C2. I just went out and measured the throw of my stock shifter. I measured from the front of the shifter handle in third gear to the front of the shifter handle in fourth gear. I came up with 4 ¾”. Could someone measure the throw of their 997 GT3 shifter as a comparison? It may be helpful to others if someone could measure their 996 GT3 and a B&M equipped car".
bk12 can you measure yours the same way?
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-gt3-forum/330742-997-gt3-shifter.html
"I'm interested in installing one of these shifters in my 2001 996 C2. I just went out and measured the throw of my stock shifter. I measured from the front of the shifter handle in third gear to the front of the shifter handle in fourth gear. I came up with 4 ¾”. Could someone measure the throw of their 997 GT3 shifter as a comparison? It may be helpful to others if someone could measure their 996 GT3 and a B&M equipped car".
bk12 can you measure yours the same way?
12-26-2007, 09:43 PM
#27
Racer
Thread Starter
I posted this on the GT3 Forum, in the 997 GT3 shifter thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330742
"I'm interested in installing one of these shifters in my 2001 996 C2. I just went out and measured the throw of my stock shifter. I measured from the front of the shifter handle in third gear to the front of the shifter handle in fourth gear. I came up with 4 ¾”. Could someone measure the throw of their 997 GT3 shifter as a comparison? It may be helpful to others if someone could measure their 996 GT3 and a B&M equipped car".
bk12 can you measure yours the same way?
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330742
"I'm interested in installing one of these shifters in my 2001 996 C2. I just went out and measured the throw of my stock shifter. I measured from the front of the shifter handle in third gear to the front of the shifter handle in fourth gear. I came up with 4 ¾”. Could someone measure the throw of their 997 GT3 shifter as a comparison? It may be helpful to others if someone could measure their 996 GT3 and a B&M equipped car".
bk12 can you measure yours the same way?
12-26-2007, 09:55 PM
#28
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I have the factory wood handle, it should be about the same as your carbon handle. I put a straight edge flat on the front of the shifter handle in third gear and hooked a tape measure to it. I ran the tape measure back and rested my hand on the emergency brake handle and locked the tape measure in place. Keeping the tape measure in place I moved the shifter to fourth gear. I then placed the straight edge on the front of the shifter again and measured how far back on the tape I was.
12-26-2007, 10:02 PM
#29
Racer
Thread Starter
Well, I did the best I could and measured 4.25", but I must say even my best technique is questionable for serious accuracy. Can you measure your 1st to 2nd in the same way?
What I really need is a Farro arm...anyone in Orange County have one we can use to compare two cars ?
What I really need is a Farro arm...anyone in Orange County have one we can use to compare two cars
?