996 Not a real Porsche?
09-24-2007, 10:03 AM
#106
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hehehePeople on the 993 board actually don't realize that the 993 Type always suffered from cancer: the almighty sunroof. This typical 90's car disease is all over the model range. I have pass on so many because of this...
09-24-2007, 02:08 PM
#107
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I can appreciated you guy's enjoy your 996 cars....Don't get to crazy on me. You did not build the cars.
Here are a few questions I could not get past when I considered a 996.
Why is the 993 holding there value while the 996 is depreciating as much as any other 911 based car.
Why did Porsche go away from it's roots, change the power plant?..... Proffit..... Well it worked. they are the most profitable car company in the world. They did not get there building GT3's and Turbo's. The profit is in there production based models.
No more hand built cars...Assembly line issues, quality issues. Interior O.K. at best, Styling not up to par.
The power plant is a throw away, way cheaper to just replace than rebuild... The gear box is getting better, but not close to the G50 in durability.
Porsche would not have a cup car if it was based on the stock 996 engine. They were not designed to withstand a race track. That is a huge compromise in my book.
Let us all look back on what made Porsche what it is today.... Not the business model of the 996.... If the fist 911 would have been the quality and Reliability of a 996, Porsche would have no race roots specializing in mini vans and econo cars.
I do appreciate all that have purchased a 996,997,Cayman, SUV......Production cars....They are great cars. Without all of your $$$ Porsche could not afford to offer the GT3 or Turbo to the few that appreciate it.
Again, try not to take it too personal. For me I will repeat, a 996 is not a real Porsche. It is a compromise for the all mighty dollar.....
Here are a few questions I could not get past when I considered a 996.
Why is the 993 holding there value while the 996 is depreciating as much as any other 911 based car.
Why did Porsche go away from it's roots, change the power plant?..... Proffit..... Well it worked. they are the most profitable car company in the world. They did not get there building GT3's and Turbo's. The profit is in there production based models.
No more hand built cars...Assembly line issues, quality issues. Interior O.K. at best, Styling not up to par.
The power plant is a throw away, way cheaper to just replace than rebuild... The gear box is getting better, but not close to the G50 in durability.
Porsche would not have a cup car if it was based on the stock 996 engine. They were not designed to withstand a race track. That is a huge compromise in my book.
Let us all look back on what made Porsche what it is today.... Not the business model of the 996.... If the fist 911 would have been the quality and Reliability of a 996, Porsche would have no race roots specializing in mini vans and econo cars.
I do appreciate all that have purchased a 996,997,Cayman, SUV......Production cars....They are great cars. Without all of your $$$ Porsche could not afford to offer the GT3 or Turbo to the few that appreciate it.
Again, try not to take it too personal. For me I will repeat, a 996 is not a real Porsche. It is a compromise for the all mighty dollar.....
On the drive down from San Fran to Sears Point, 5:00 traffic on Friday. I passed by 22 Porsche cars. All but 4 were 996 cars.... One 997 GT3 Two Carrera's and one early car.... There are a ton of 996 owners, so obviously we are going to have a ton of People that love there cars...
I was at a NASA event. Porsche club race and HPDE ( driver Training )session. The HPDE was full and they added another Open Track session for over flow. 40+ cars in every session for both days. Great event, great track, much to learn...
In the Porsche club race there was no 996 cars....?? There was one Boxer that hauled ***, The cop car clone, I think it has a GT3 drive train.
I saw maybe 4 996 cars, a few caymans, GT3's many early Porsche cars. I have already stated why this is... One of the 996 guy's. ( forgot his name, but a great guy ) Ran with me both days. he wheeled his 996 like a pro. His car was the only car Smoking through every corner. It burned about 1/2 quart per session I think he said. No worries. ... It just needs a replacement engine.....
I think it is a shame that there are not more 996 based cars on the track. 10 years from now what are people going to be driving at the Porsche club races. Is HPDE going to be taken over by another Breed. Is Porsche out of the Track Car business... Is the GT3 the only option.... None of you 996 guys thinks this sucks....
The moral of the story is the Porsche community has evolved. If you bought a Porsche to drive to work every day with the top down, the 996 is a perfect car for you. If you bought a Porsche to take you wife to dinner up the Pacific Coast Hwy, the 996 is for you. "The 996 is a great car", It looks great and drives great, compared to it's competition, not compared to it's past...Not every one has the same track, Sport purpose mentality as I do. Porsche has recognized this and done a great job of adapting.
I personally think it is B.S. that they do not offer the best power plant for the track in every car, including the Cayman.... It sucks... Porsche has evolved and not for the best in my "assclown douchebag" point of view.
Please take a second and read my post agian.... Keep in mind the cars I own and the Passion I have for Porsche..... 10 Years from now what are people going to be collecting..... 996 Cars???? Only the GT3 version..
09-24-2007, 03:02 PM
#109
Ironman 140.6
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I think it is a shame that there are not more 996 based cars on the track. 10 years from now what are people going to be driving at the Porsche club races. Is HPDE going to be taken over by another Breed. Is Porsche out of the Track Car business... Is the GT3 the only option.... None of you 996 guys thinks this sucks....
I'll try again.
In spite of your statement that you just don't see these cars on the track (out west) these cars are being tracked in large numbers at many events with no apparent issues.
Jim B gave you numbers at several recent club races and you continue to ignore the fact that 996's have been successfully campaigned in Grand Am Cup for years. Additionally, there is a new Boxster Spec series that is gaining in popularity and the cars run very well in these events.
How is this possible? If the new motors just aren't up to snuff for track use why do so many track them without issue?
I have been taking my Boxster to the track for seven years now. I have logged thousands of track miles on the car with zero engine problems. I've changed the oil, tires, pads, rotors, etc more times than I can count but I'm still driving around on the original motor.
In the midwest the tracks are full of participants in these cars.
So who should be believed?
- The voice of a cynic (you) who claims to never see these cars tracked out west (but them goes on to claim that they "smoke" in corners)?
- The experience of those that drive these cars on the track regularly and see multiple examples tracked at every single event they attend?
Can you refute any of the info posted by other in this or the Racing thread that actually have experience in these cars?
09-24-2007, 03:22 PM
#110
I asked you guy's not to take it personal. But you did, It is ok. I enjoy when people have passion. Even if it is a 996, better than an Evo.
993 Board? I am am RS guy at heart. 964 being my favorate.
Your quote somes up your mind set: You said: "Porsche decided to abandon the air-cooled engine because it was inadequate to handle the extra horsepower Porsche needed in order to continue to evolve the 911 into the future. Don't get me wrong, I love the older air cooled P-Cars but they are old technology."
Based on your statement answer this questions? GT3, GT2, Turbo, Cup, RSR. They put out more H.P. but they are based on the same engine block that Porsche has been developing for the last 30+ years...."Old Technology", using your logic... Why don't all 996 cars have GT3 power plants??? Profit. Plain and simple. For Porsche to make money they comprimized. What do you think the next race car platform will be based on. Not the 996 motor, design will not handle it. So what good is the development of the 996 power plant? Not for racing. For profit.... Because of guy's like you it is working.
I will retract my statements, apoligize and take my limited experience back where I came from. A 996 is a great car. I guess I am stuck in the past... Sorry.
993 Board? I am am RS guy at heart. 964 being my favorate.
Your quote somes up your mind set: You said: "Porsche decided to abandon the air-cooled engine because it was inadequate to handle the extra horsepower Porsche needed in order to continue to evolve the 911 into the future. Don't get me wrong, I love the older air cooled P-Cars but they are old technology."
Based on your statement answer this questions? GT3, GT2, Turbo, Cup, RSR. They put out more H.P. but they are based on the same engine block that Porsche has been developing for the last 30+ years...."Old Technology", using your logic... Why don't all 996 cars have GT3 power plants??? Profit. Plain and simple. For Porsche to make money they comprimized. What do you think the next race car platform will be based on. Not the 996 motor, design will not handle it. So what good is the development of the 996 power plant? Not for racing. For profit.... Because of guy's like you it is working.
I will retract my statements, apoligize and take my limited experience back where I came from. A 996 is a great car. I guess I am stuck in the past... Sorry.
I had a long, reasoned, fact-based argument for you all typed out. And then I thought, I'm a putz for giving this the time of day. Back in the 60s, the 356 community was just as up in arms over the 'commercial sellout' that was the 911. You know how the 911 guys solved it? They waited. Eventually, the 911 made its point.
09-24-2007, 04:44 PM
#111
Nordschleife Master
Ray, you did a great job of explaining. RS 197 is an 
that is not listening. Looks like a Troll to me - don't justify his provocation with your time.
that is not listening. Looks like a Troll to me - don't justify his provocation with your time.
09-24-2007, 05:07 PM
#112
Ironman 140.6
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In case there was any confusion about where "Joe" stands on his feeling for the 996. Here's his response earlier this year to a poster who was trying to decide between a 993 and a 996.
or
(News flash Joe, they have the same motor)
Not worth .02 IMHO. Go preach your garbage somewhere else Joe.
993,
have you driven both cars?????? Shut the door on the 993, feel the difference. Look at the interior, see the difference. Legendary air cooled motor, or water cooled peice of crap. Egg shaped headlights, no curves.
There is "No Comparison", 996 is the ugliest, cheapest built peice of crap I have ever driven. I have 3 budies that have had them and hate them. No joke. It has a Subaru engine and a throw away gear box. It would be a great car for your wife. Has more in common with a honda than a porsche.
My .02 for what it is worth. Hope it helps.
have you driven both cars?????? Shut the door on the 993, feel the difference. Look at the interior, see the difference. Legendary air cooled motor, or water cooled peice of crap. Egg shaped headlights, no curves.
There is "No Comparison", 996 is the ugliest, cheapest built peice of crap I have ever driven. I have 3 budies that have had them and hate them. No joke. It has a Subaru engine and a throw away gear box. It would be a great car for your wife. Has more in common with a honda than a porsche.
My .02 for what it is worth. Hope it helps.
Not worth .02 IMHO. Go preach your garbage somewhere else Joe.
09-24-2007, 05:50 PM
#114
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I'm pretty sure that the closest old Joe comes to a Porsche is the 50% off coffee table book he went through to make up the list of cars he owns. If he does happen to own them then he's just a pain in the *** rather than a lying pain in the ***. Either way I'm sure not wasting any more of my time responding to his ignorant rants.
Last edited by JimB; 09-24-2007 at 06:19 PM.
09-24-2007, 08:02 PM
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I'm pretty sure that the closest old Joe comes to a Porsche is the 50% off coffee table book he went through to make up the list of cars he owns. If he does happen to own them then he's just a pain in the *** rather than a lying pain in the ***. Either way I'm sure not wasting any more of my time responding to his ignorant rants.
You are right in one respect.... The bases for my collection started when I was about 18 With a coffee table book about Porsche cars.... I will have to go back and look how many of them are in my garage?? Maybe it was a sign.... The book had no reference to a 996??? I guess I can blame my ignorance on the book???
I will leave now.... I will say again it is nice that you guys have such a passion for your cars.... At least we have one thing in comon....
09-24-2007, 09:41 PM
#118
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Wow, What a post. Sorry for the delay in responses. I have been in San Fransisco all weekend. The heart of Porsche country, Driving one of the finest tracks in the land. Sears Point....
On the drive down from San Fran to Sears Point, 5:00 traffic on Friday. I passed by 22 Porsche cars. All but 4 were 996 cars.... One 997 GT3 Two Carrera's and one early car.... There are a ton of 996 owners, so obviously we are going to have a ton of People that love there cars...
I was at a NASA event. Porsche club race and HPDE ( driver Training )session. The HPDE was full and they added another Open Track session for over flow. 40+ cars in every session for both days. Great event, great track, much to learn...
In the Porsche club race there was no 996 cars....?? There was one Boxer that hauled ***, The cop car clone, I think it has a GT3 drive train.
I saw maybe 4 996 cars, a few caymans, GT3's many early Porsche cars. I have already stated why this is... One of the 996 guy's. ( forgot his name, but a great guy ) Ran with me both days. he wheeled his 996 like a pro. His car was the only car Smoking through every corner. It burned about 1/2 quart per session I think he said. No worries. ... It just needs a replacement engine.....
I think it is a shame that there are not more 996 based cars on the track. 10 years from now what are people going to be driving at the Porsche club races. Is HPDE going to be taken over by another Breed. Is Porsche out of the Track Car business... Is the GT3 the only option.... None of you 996 guys thinks this sucks....
The moral of the story is the Porsche community has evolved. If you bought a Porsche to drive to work every day with the top down, the 996 is a perfect car for you. If you bought a Porsche to take you wife to dinner up the Pacific Coast Hwy, the 996 is for you. "The 996 is a great car", It looks great and drives great, compared to it's competition, not compared to it's past...Not every one has the same track, Sport purpose mentality as I do. Porsche has recognized this and done a great job of adapting.
I personally think it is B.S. that they do not offer the best power plant for the track in every car, including the Cayman.... It sucks... Porsche has evolved and not for the best in my "assclown douchebag" point of view.
Please take a second and read my post agian.... Keep in mind the cars I own and the Passion I have for Porsche..... 10 Years from now what are people going to be collecting..... 996 Cars???? Only the GT3 version..
On the drive down from San Fran to Sears Point, 5:00 traffic on Friday. I passed by 22 Porsche cars. All but 4 were 996 cars.... One 997 GT3 Two Carrera's and one early car.... There are a ton of 996 owners, so obviously we are going to have a ton of People that love there cars...
I was at a NASA event. Porsche club race and HPDE ( driver Training )session. The HPDE was full and they added another Open Track session for over flow. 40+ cars in every session for both days. Great event, great track, much to learn...
In the Porsche club race there was no 996 cars....?? There was one Boxer that hauled ***, The cop car clone, I think it has a GT3 drive train.
I saw maybe 4 996 cars, a few caymans, GT3's many early Porsche cars. I have already stated why this is... One of the 996 guy's. ( forgot his name, but a great guy ) Ran with me both days. he wheeled his 996 like a pro. His car was the only car Smoking through every corner. It burned about 1/2 quart per session I think he said. No worries. ... It just needs a replacement engine.....
I think it is a shame that there are not more 996 based cars on the track. 10 years from now what are people going to be driving at the Porsche club races. Is HPDE going to be taken over by another Breed. Is Porsche out of the Track Car business... Is the GT3 the only option.... None of you 996 guys thinks this sucks....
The moral of the story is the Porsche community has evolved. If you bought a Porsche to drive to work every day with the top down, the 996 is a perfect car for you. If you bought a Porsche to take you wife to dinner up the Pacific Coast Hwy, the 996 is for you. "The 996 is a great car", It looks great and drives great, compared to it's competition, not compared to it's past...Not every one has the same track, Sport purpose mentality as I do. Porsche has recognized this and done a great job of adapting.
I personally think it is B.S. that they do not offer the best power plant for the track in every car, including the Cayman.... It sucks... Porsche has evolved and not for the best in my "assclown douchebag" point of view.
Please take a second and read my post agian.... Keep in mind the cars I own and the Passion I have for Porsche..... 10 Years from now what are people going to be collecting..... 996 Cars???? Only the GT3 version..
i was at TH that friday.
here is my two cents. the dry sumped case, GTx cars, are better than wet sumped 996... as they should since they cost a lot more. but i have tracked two 996c2's and each had 5-6k track miles on it in 1.5 years. they never had engine prob.
i tracked a cayman S to death and so did mantis racing winning a lot of races in PCA, the engine was fine, now the pwr steering is POS but that's another issue.
TRG raced several 997 this year in koni challenge, no starvation of oil either.
09-24-2007, 11:28 PM
#119
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Did anyone else see those fake Porsche's racing on Speed yesterday?
Someone needs to call the home office about those guys. Building unlicensed kit cars! Come on!
Someone needs to call the home office about those guys. Building unlicensed kit cars! Come on!
09-25-2007, 04:36 AM
#120
Drifting
Has it come to this...... Give me a break.....
You are right in one respect.... The bases for my collection started when I was about 18 With a coffee table book about Porsche cars.... I will have to go back and look how many of them are in my garage?? Maybe it was a sign.... The book had no reference to a 996??? I guess I can blame my ignorance on the book???
I will leave now.... I will say again it is nice that you guys have such a passion for your cars.... At least we have one thing in comon....
You are right in one respect.... The bases for my collection started when I was about 18 With a coffee table book about Porsche cars.... I will have to go back and look how many of them are in my garage?? Maybe it was a sign.... The book had no reference to a 996??? I guess I can blame my ignorance on the book???
I will leave now.... I will say again it is nice that you guys have such a passion for your cars.... At least we have one thing in comon....
__________________________________________
Joe, you need to get a Hooked on Phonics book to keep your P-Car books company on your coffee table because your spelling is atrocious.
I too have owned coffee table books about Porsche, but in my case it probably goes back to the time when I was 11 or 12 years old. I suggest you buy some new books on Porsche, which do indeed have many references to the 996 series. One book in particular, "Porsche 911 Story" by Paul Frere, devotes many pages to the 996 in which Paul speaks very highly of the car and its evolution. You may in fact be very knowledgeable about Porsche cars, however I can guarantee you are not 1/10 as knowledgeable as Mr. Frere so excuse me if I hold his opinion with more weight than your own.
Don't blame your old book for your ignorance of the 996, blame yourself.