mkiv808

I'd be interested to hear what of my review was off-base.

mkiv808

I'm pretty picky about my exhaust sound.

My NSX had a wonderful sound. As did the stock titanium Z06 exhaust.

AndrewWK

This makes me want to share my funny anecdote from this evening. I'm driving in the parking lot of the local mall with quite a bit of traffic. People walking about in all directions. I've got the windows down enjoying the air and the sound of the PSE, barely off idle and someone yells "slow down." I guess it really does just sound fast.

A few counter points.
You are used to having 6-7ltrs hanging out near your front axle, any rear engined car will feel light on the frontend in comparison. That's the nature of the beast. Tuning that out would kind of defeat the whole purpose of moving to rear-engine setup.
The C4S is one of the more limp wristed models for power comparisons, being the heaviest without any real extra oomph to accompany the go fast good looks.
I'm not sure what you are looking for in driving position. "Sports car feel," sounds like another term for "uncomfortable, half-lying down while driving" position.
The cars have a pretty decently weighted clutch, nothing like some of the older quad pumping Audis, but not the modulation only style of most new cars.

MarkinMD

mkiv808, I think some of your observations may only be applicable to the specific C4S that you drove. Go drive another C4S and see if your opinions still hold. The example that you drove may not have been properly maintained or serviced.

When I started 911 shopping I drove two '03 911's on the same day and they were as different as night and day. If I had formed my opinions only from the first 911 I drove that day, I would not own one today. The second car was so much better, I almost bought it. But I'm glad I waited and found the C4S that I eventually bought.

dresler

Rob- did they replace more than the friction plate? Mine is heavy too, but I thought that was normal. Can be a pain in traffic (but I won't stop using it as a DD!!!!)

rroobbcc

From what I understand the clutch replacement kit includes the clutch plate and pressure plate, but not the flywheel as it has a much much longer life.

99firehawk

the kit is a disc pressure plate and a release bearing
flywheel is anohter 1000

mkiv808, i work on and drive porsches all day and to be honest I feel the same way as you do on most issues and its why I cant bring myself to buy one. The simple truth is its just not fast enough for me, even at turbo levels. I would highly recmend driving a turbo though it will have alot more of the felling you are looking for coming from a vette

SteveFromMN

After 5 Vettes over 24 years I got my first 996 cab in 99 which I still own. I do miss the low end torque of the big V8 but the P car is much more fun to drive. The Vette turning radius is a real killer.
The Vette handled great but seemed to take your full attention to the point of being tiresome. The P-car is like it knows what you want and just dances down the road. YMMV

dresler

A turbo is not fast enough for you? Holy cow.

jumper5836

Obviously you know nothing. The 4S is just as powerfull as any other model 996 and the 996 Targa is the heavy weight out of the na engined 996 model. 0-62 times are .1 second apart from the C2. Calling it limp wristed is insulting.

jimhsu

There are more ways to make a car go faster than pure HP. C4S has better brakes, lower suspension, and wider stance. You may argue that the wider stance, wider body also make C4S go slower, but that's really only critical when you are talking max top speed when aerodynamics will matter the most when all else are about equivalent.

The proof is in the Porsche official Nurburgring lap times:

996 C4S: 8 minutes, 16 seconds

996 C2: 8 minutes, 20 seconds

Here's the source:

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...arrera_4s.html

According to Porsche, the extra grip and stronger braking of the C4S give it a Nurburgring lap time of 8min 16sec, or four seconds quicker than the Carrera 2. The suggestion is that the Turbo-look isn't just for show and makes the C4S a better proposition for track days....

I guess if your track day includes gunning for maximum top speed (you'd have to be running your track days on an empty air field or Bonneville Salt Flats), you could call C4S limp-wristed since its top speed is @ 2 mph lower than the C2.

Otherwise, it'd be hard to imagine C4S as a limp-wristed model since in the hands of Walter Rohrl the C4S beats C2 around The 'Ring....

GaryAZ

That's 0.12% difference by my calculation. I wouldn't say it's limp-wristed but I also wouldn't say it's something to boast about. A slightly tired Walter could account for that difference. The Porsche marketing machine makes a negligible difference into a reason to spend more $$. It must work. It is a beautiful car and as we all know the C4S cab was the best selling 996.

jimhsu

Hmm...I think you had it right the first time: 0.8%, not 0.12% difference. 4 seconds divided by 500 seconds (8 minutes 20 sec) times 100%.

Anyone who races 6 hours, 12-hours events? I haven't, but I would venture that a 4-second advantage per 8-minute-plus lap is huge, and would actually be something to boast about if you could gain that amount of improvement.

In a 12-hour event at Nurburgring, for example, the C4S will beat the C2 by almost 6 minutes. That would still be only 0.8%, but in racing that would be a whopping margin, don't you think?

I have read the advantage of 997 GT3 over 996 GT3 of 2-3 seconds per lap on Infineon described by a race driver as a difference that is impossible to overcome in competition. (I paraphrase. You can find the exact adjective in the recent Excellence Mag with the yellow GT3 on cover.)

But that's racing. In real life, the bottom line is: to call C4S wimpier than C2 because it's wider and heavier and with the same powerplant would be missing the attributes like brakes and wider stance that can make the C4S faster than a C2.

AndrewWK

Whoa, slowdown there, compared to the 40th (x51), x51, turbo, gt2, gt3 etc the C4S is heavier with no additional power. Sure, the targa might be more of a porker, hence I didn't say the C4S was the slowest although MSN actually lists it as being lighter than the C4S. I used '02 as a yr for comparison:

C4S 3241
C2 2910
targa 3114
c2 cab 3197

Sorry, but I can tell when I'm carrying an additional 300lbs around. I've driven them back to back and it does feel slower. Try not to personalize my comments. My limp wristed comment was only in relation to power, not brakes, wide fenders etc.

Andrew

fast1

2002 C4S, 33,000 miles

Feels like it has NO power in comparison to my C6, but in the twisties it does feel good.

I believe that you captured the essence of the differances between the two cars in your initial observation, and what you state is true. The C6 weighs less than a 996 C4S, and the C6 has 40% more torque than a C4S. So it doesn't take a leap of faith to believe that the C6 will be a lot quicker, especially of you define quick as straight line speed.

Your other observation is that the C4S feels good in the twisties. To me that's the essence of what any P car offers. The other primary differance between the cars is the quality of the materials used in the inerior, and the interior and exterior fit and finish.

In the final analysis you must do an assessment of yourself, and ascertain what is most important to you in a car: things like styling, quality, power, handling, price, value, fit and finish, warranty, and place a value on them. This may help you to determine which is the better car for you. Although the purchase of a sports car is largely an emotional decision, making certain that you have the right sports car should be a rational decision.

Since I don't have the time to track my car, and since I don't intend to explore the power limits of my car on public roads, a Porsche was the easy decision for me. It's a car that you can enjoy on the public roads without flagrantly disregarding posted speed limits. For the right owner, a Porsche will put a smile on his face just when he's routinely driving a road because of the way the car feels and responds to a driver's inputs. It's difficult to put into words, but it's something that almost every Porsche owner understands and appreciates.