Dale Gribble

Does anyone have a part number for this please? Both the internal and external one?

thanks in advance

RayGT3

You will also require a relay 996.612.927.80 that goes with the OE switches and a bunch of wiring to be done as well.

Emerg. switch assy 996.613.183.90 ext
Pressure Switch 996.613.261.95 int

There's probablly another 20 or so parts listed for the complete assy. Not sure if there might be a single P/N for everything.

Dale Gribble

thanks for the info ray, did u install it on your vehicle?

RayGT3

Haven't installed this as of yet but did get the P/N's from the (2003) 911 GT3 Cup car service information book. Someone about a year ago had it posted and I downloaded and made a hard copy of it. It's come in handy with some of these off the wall P/N's.

JimB

Dead,
Are you set on a factory piece or just as good electronic kill switch? I think you'd like the setup I have in my racecar. I have both external and internal switches.
Jim

Dale Gribble

Jim,

i'm not absolutly deadset on the factory pieces (cost will be the main factor...a 600$ killswitch would be unpleasent) although i admitedly have been trying to stick to as many factory pieces as possible (probably for the same reason as people buying real gucci instead of knockoff..the fuzzy feeling of accomplishment). what setup are you running in ur racecar? a 6 pole external with wiring to the battery, ECU and fuel pump?

Dale Gribble

BUMP for this thread.

Jim, i'm not opposed to an electronic kill switch (hell i don't even mind a traditional style one).

I've attached a copy of the series rule book on kill switches. I'm assuming based off this that at the very least I would need a 4-pole switch to interrupt not only the battery but the DME as well to get everything to shutoff properly without risking hazard to the components.

6.4 CIRCUIT BREAKER
6.4.1 Cars shall be equipped with a general circuit breaker easily accessible from outside the Car. This
circuit breaker will cut all electrical circuits (ignition, fuel pumps, lights, alternator, etc.) but shall not
affect the operation of an on-board fire extinguisher.

6.4.2 The location of the circuit breaker shall be clearly marked by the official international marking – a
red spark in a white-edged blue triangle and shall be mounted in the following standard locations.
The OFF position shall be clearly indicated at the master switch location.

6.4.3 FORMULA and SPORTS RACING CARS
In close proximity to the right hand upright member of the main hoop and in a location so that it
cannot be operated accidentally. It may be mounted on a bracket welded to the inside of the
upright member of the main hoop.

6.4.4 GT CARS
In front of the windshield on either the cowl or fender but close enough to the windshield to be
accessible if the Car is overturned. Alternatively it may be mounted on a bracket attached by
welding or clamps to the roll cage, easily accessible through the driver’s side open window. Drilling
holes in the roll cage for this purpose is prohibited.

6.4.5 OPEN GT CARS
In any of the above locations.

JimB

Omar,
I appologize. I remember writing a response but I think I was interupted and never sent it.

Here is the cutout I use. What is nice is that it's electronic rather than manual. The cutout it created by breaking a ground connection. So, you can have as many cutout switches as you want. It is used to cut the fuel pump, ignition, etc. Many clubracers use it. The website is a little cheesy but it's a very good part.

http://www.batterycutoff.com/

One good thing is that you should be able to use OEM switches to make to installation look stock.
Jim

Dale Gribble

Jim,

no need to appologize at all. Your help as always has been very useful and much appreciated. Thanks!

RayGT3

There's nothing "electronic" about this "switch", a selenoid is just an electrically operated mechanical switch. This would just take the place of the relay in the OE installation. Still need the manual switch under the hood and dash. Also I'm not real comfortable in breaking the ground leg to shut things down, it will theoretically work but in a safety type application, I personally would not go down that road.

JimB

I guess I don't understand your concern or your comments. It's a proven manual switch controlled by an electronic selenoid as opposed to a manual cable. I've had the switch in my car for over a year and cut the power via a switch on the dash everytime I shut off the car. It works perfectly.

Is your concern based on engineering or experience or something else? I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that in practice it works perfectly.
Jim

Dale Gribble

I find Jim's solution to be particularily advantageous as I can now leave in my 6lb Braille racing battery without having to worry about the battery draining if I go away for the weekend or am to busy to drive the car daily, the kill switch can be activated and then deactivated as needed to ensure the battery won't get spoiled.

RayGT3

My first concern is safety, the intent of the whole system is to remove power from specific potientally dangerous areas which might react badly to a collision.
That being said, if you disable these devices by breaking the negative connection, these devices are in effect still powered but no ground is in place. In an accident the sheet metal and other structure is collapsed in all manner, possibly contacting these areas and providing an inpromptu "ground" connection and defeating the "switch" on the ground side. Remember when cars were powered with the positive to the chassis. It didn't take too many fires and deaths to decide this might not be a great idea.

You mentioned Engineering, I am a retired process engineer and worked for a major chemical company for 30 years and would never render something safe by assuming that removing attachment from the neg side would actually do so. The only thing I can say it is a very bad practice, does it work, sometimes, but I would not put my life in this situation or any one elses. Something is either safe or not, no middle ground. It is my feeling this approach is simply not safe.

Then there's the method by which you could actually isolate a ground on a device such as an alternator when the neg is actually the case of the alternator, there is no wire. This applies to other devices as well.

Seems you don't like the wire pulls on the outside, where were you going to mount this outside (required) electronic switch? The OE setup inside uses a button (switch) not a pull. Hit the button (opening this circuit) and the relay drops out (fail safe), all required items loose power. The use of a solenoid in this case in one of misapplication.

When someone misrepresents an item in an ad, especially one tied to safety, I immediately get this feeling that something is not well. As I mentioned there is nothing electronic relating to this device, partially electrical, mostly mechanical but not electronic.

The OE system is well thought out and race proven over many years. It is my intention not to dispel your idea, but hope to prevent someone from being injured as a result of simply an inherant bad design. Everyone has their own opinions and this is mine, take it for what it's worth. I mean no disrespect, only to offer some insight.

JimB

Ray,
Interesting. I love it when there's good stuff to learn on this board.

I can buy the ground break issue. It's conceivable that an inadvertent ground could be created in a wreck. That’s only an issue with the way I have mine connected. It could be connected with the switches on the power side. And, there is no reason not to use the OE switches as I suggested originally. Wouldn’t it then be essentially the same system as OE only you are cutting power to a servo which activates the switch cutting power to the ignition, fuel pump, etc.? Not as cool as what is in my cup car but a fraction of the price.

I guess your other concern is that the servo will fail. Granted it’s mechanical so that’s possible but won’t it likely fail open causing the car to lose power?

BTW, 90% of all race cars use a similar switch with a plastic lever on the top which is pulled using a cable which is routed out the hood somewhere. I’d guess it’s a lot more likely that the lever will be broken or the cable mangled in a wreck than an inadvertent ground created. No science here, just a guess.

Finally, and this is my only criticism, I’m sure to engineers there is a big difference between electronic and electric. I have a Computer Science degree and an MS in Applied Systems Management and if I accused people of being misleading every time someone misused a technical or financial term I’d be going crazy all day long. Having said that I spent a few years early in my career in a nuke plant so I have great respect for process and safety engineers. I appreciate the way you think.

Thanks for your insight.
Jim

RayGT3

Maybe a look at the diference between the relay and selenoid might clarify things.

Selenoid......
.....High current device, uses relatively high current as a control, no latching, either on or off, limited control. Used with high current devices, starters etc. Could be used with low current devices but is way overkill for this type application.

Relay.......
...... Low to medium current service, multiple contacts provide a latching mechanism, seal in contacts. once deenergized it needs to purposefully reset.
This is a great safety advantage, you don't want to be able to just turn these devices on and off without confirming it's OK to do so. If this has been tripped you have some type of a problem, deliberate consideration must be taken before it is reenergised. When the relay is reset ( often open the hood and manually reset the relay) you are confirming that the emergency has been addressed and it is OK to proceed. The fact that this isn't easy is actually desired and inconvience is really not a big consideration in this type of installation. What we're after is once the wire is pulled everything shuts off and will not power back on till you physically allow it to do that, there is no way you could bump a switch and mistakenly repower the system. And yes if you loose power to the relay, when driving, for what ever reason, it will shut everything off, this is exactly what you would want to happen (fail safe). You would not want to race a car that this system was, for whatever reason, not in working order. Believe it or not I would see this type of problem several times an event, I tech cars at the Porsche Clash, pull the wire and the car keeps running. I always get the blank stare and "it worked yesterday" comment. These shut off systems are not understood by many and are often overlooked by the guy building a race car in his garage. Often installed as an afterthought. I find myself in a position of protecting these guys from themselves. The rules are very clear but maybe the purpose and functionality needs to be explained clearer before folks will thake them to heart.

Sorry if I sound like I'm preaching, but if this thread saves one person from injury or worse, preacher I am.