Going crazy - Cannot decide 993 or 996
Drifting
Joined: May 2002
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From: Beautiful North Carolina
You guys are so funny! I swear, the amount of totally useless and irrelevant "information" boggles the mind. 
No, this doesn't apply to you, what you wrote is excellent. It's the other guy. 
Anywho... I started with the 964, moved to the 993 and now have a 996 (I obviously joined this board when I had the 993). Each one has it's pluses and minuses. One thing that amazes me about many of the 993 fanatics is that they seem to mostly all have pristine low mileage garage queens worth slightly more than a new Ferrari. If one was to look for an "average" 993 with "average" miles for a 10 year old car, it ain't gonna be worth any more than a comparable 996.
Several people had a good point about maintenance. The 993 requires a 15K spark plug change, which is not only quite often (if you actually drive the car, that is) but a real PITA to perform (or expensive, if you take it to the dealer). The oil change on that car is absolutely ridiculous, requiring removal of the right rear wheel, rocker panel, two filters and 12 quarts. The 996 on the other hand has one drain, one filter, and you can get to it all without removing any other parts.
The 993 has the best engine sounds, hands-down. Some will argue that it looks better, but most will agree that is not the case with the standard USA suspension (which is too high). The interior is more, uh, hmmm... authentic comes to mind, as does "dated" and "stuck in the 60's" on the 993. The plastic on both cars is about the same - the 993 may have a silght edge, but the radio sucks and don't even get me started on the stupidest must unfriendly difficult and over-engineered "security" system, with that stupid immobilization system.
Bit I digress.
As a daily driver, which is what the OP asked about, I'd have to vote for the 996. If you were buying a weekend toy, where money is no object but you want the Porsche 911 experience and enjoy tinkering with the car and making modifications and repairs, then I'd vote for the 993.
Michael
No, this doesn't apply to you, what you wrote is excellent. It's the other guy. Anywho... I started with the 964, moved to the 993 and now have a 996 (I obviously joined this board when I had the 993). Each one has it's pluses and minuses. One thing that amazes me about many of the 993 fanatics is that they seem to mostly all have pristine low mileage garage queens worth slightly more than a new Ferrari. If one was to look for an "average" 993 with "average" miles for a 10 year old car, it ain't gonna be worth any more than a comparable 996.
Several people had a good point about maintenance. The 993 requires a 15K spark plug change, which is not only quite often (if you actually drive the car, that is) but a real PITA to perform (or expensive, if you take it to the dealer). The oil change on that car is absolutely ridiculous, requiring removal of the right rear wheel, rocker panel, two filters and 12 quarts. The 996 on the other hand has one drain, one filter, and you can get to it all without removing any other parts.
The 993 has the best engine sounds, hands-down. Some will argue that it looks better, but most will agree that is not the case with the standard USA suspension (which is too high). The interior is more, uh, hmmm... authentic comes to mind, as does "dated" and "stuck in the 60's" on the 993. The plastic on both cars is about the same - the 993 may have a silght edge, but the radio sucks and don't even get me started on the stupidest must unfriendly difficult and over-engineered "security" system, with that stupid immobilization system.
Bit I digress.
As a daily driver, which is what the OP asked about, I'd have to vote for the 996. If you were buying a weekend toy, where money is no object but you want the Porsche 911 experience and enjoy tinkering with the car and making modifications and repairs, then I'd vote for the 993.
Michael
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From: MN
Adrian,
Thanks for your thoughtful post. I could agree more.
A couple of years ago when I had a 98 993 and a 99 996 in my garage I used to reply to these threads with a rational comparison of the two. I no longer bother. I figure if the 993 guys actually believe they have the best Porsche ever made good for them. They can live happily in their wonderland.
Jim
Thanks for your thoughtful post. I could agree more.
A couple of years ago when I had a 98 993 and a 99 996 in my garage I used to reply to these threads with a rational comparison of the two. I no longer bother. I figure if the 993 guys actually believe they have the best Porsche ever made good for them. They can live happily in their wonderland.
Jim
Originally Posted by Adrian
Dave,
Usually I do not comment on these threads, but the level of posting on the 993 forum against the 996 and its owners "like we are not real Porsche people" and sprouting lies that the 996 engine is somehow related to a Subaru engine makes me ashamed to have anything to do with Rennlist sometimes.
There are quite few people over there that I have helped in the past that are now off my Christmas card list. You cannot deliberately and maliciously insult fellow Porsche owners and their rides with impunity forever.
Sadly Rennlist has changed, but for the record I have never had the desire to own a 993 which itself was an ecomonic compromise due to the massive financial problems Porsche found themselves in at the time.
The 993 was justifiably in its day the King of Porsche, but the King is dead, and the Monarchy has been replaced by the Porsche Republic.
Long live the Emperor and may his waters not spread across the land.
Ciao,
Adrian.
PS: How many of the 993 owners slagging off against the 996 are driving non modified cars? If you compare a stock standard US version model year 1995 993 Carrera on 16 inch wheels against a 964 Carrera RS it was like driving a lumbering whale in comparison. Most of these 993 owners have had to modify their cars or have purchased modified versions in order to "improve the basic 993, which in itself was a major improvement over the standard 964 was not comparable to the performance versions of the 964 series. The same applies when comparing a 993 on PS9s to a stock standard US version 996. Not that any of us would like to let the truth get in the way of a good story.
PSS: Some of these 993 owners should read Ferry Porsche's story. There are two books out there that he helped pen. If Studebaker had not got into trouble the second Porsche into series production (first being Type 356 and the second Type 575) would have been a 4-door, compact sedan with a V6 watercooled engine. To quote Ferry Porsche from his 1978 book co-written with J. Bentley: "I don't care if the engine is air-cooled or water-cooled".
Usually I do not comment on these threads, but the level of posting on the 993 forum against the 996 and its owners "like we are not real Porsche people" and sprouting lies that the 996 engine is somehow related to a Subaru engine makes me ashamed to have anything to do with Rennlist sometimes.
There are quite few people over there that I have helped in the past that are now off my Christmas card list. You cannot deliberately and maliciously insult fellow Porsche owners and their rides with impunity forever.
Sadly Rennlist has changed, but for the record I have never had the desire to own a 993 which itself was an ecomonic compromise due to the massive financial problems Porsche found themselves in at the time.
The 993 was justifiably in its day the King of Porsche, but the King is dead, and the Monarchy has been replaced by the Porsche Republic.
Long live the Emperor and may his waters not spread across the land.
Ciao,
Adrian.
PS: How many of the 993 owners slagging off against the 996 are driving non modified cars? If you compare a stock standard US version model year 1995 993 Carrera on 16 inch wheels against a 964 Carrera RS it was like driving a lumbering whale in comparison. Most of these 993 owners have had to modify their cars or have purchased modified versions in order to "improve the basic 993, which in itself was a major improvement over the standard 964 was not comparable to the performance versions of the 964 series. The same applies when comparing a 993 on PS9s to a stock standard US version 996. Not that any of us would like to let the truth get in the way of a good story.
PSS: Some of these 993 owners should read Ferry Porsche's story. There are two books out there that he helped pen. If Studebaker had not got into trouble the second Porsche into series production (first being Type 356 and the second Type 575) would have been a 4-door, compact sedan with a V6 watercooled engine. To quote Ferry Porsche from his 1978 book co-written with J. Bentley: "I don't care if the engine is air-cooled or water-cooled".
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From: Boston
Actually, that's not true ... by the book, the plugs on the 993 are changed every 30k miles.
The 996 is a more comfortable car to drive daily, but not by a whole lot ... I've driven both 996 and 993 examples daily, even through the winter, and both are very reliable and comfortable cars.
The 996 is a more comfortable car to drive daily, but not by a whole lot ... I've driven both 996 and 993 examples daily, even through the winter, and both are very reliable and comfortable cars.
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From: MN
Originally Posted by mkc4s
Cars are best judged, like in figure skating, on technical value and on artistic impression. Everybody knows that 996 has better technical value, but 993 shines in artistic impression.
Jim
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From: North Carolina
Originally Posted by JimB
I'm adding this to my dumbest post of all time list. Congrats. You're number 4.
Jim
Jim
Thank you for that Jim!! You made me laugh hard and I needed that with this silly thread!!
Drifting
Joined: May 2002
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From: Beautiful North Carolina
Originally Posted by vjd3
Actually, that's not true ... by the book, the plugs on the 993 are changed every 30k miles.
And the book on the 996 says 60K miles, so it's still half as often. And half as many plugs. And half as difficult. So that's like, uh, 1/8.
Michael
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From: Parafield Gardens
Originally Posted by JChiles
Do I need to create a new thread about who has the strongest dad or can we just deal with that here as well while we are at it?
Plus to answer the original poster I would not consider a 993 now as a daily driver. If you want a daily driver you get the youngest car you can afford simply because you are going to pile on the miles. 996 maintenance is much cheaper than the 993 and if you can get a 996 with some warranty still attached even better.
Remember only the 1997 and 1998 calendar build years of the 993 still have some long life guarantee left. If you pick up a 993 with hidden rust and it pops through you will have to foot the bill because the long life guarantee only lasts 10 calendar years from delivery to the first owner.
For myself I much prefer the design of the 996 over the 993 as does my wife and all the other 996 owners I know.
Ciao,
Adrian.
Last edited by Adrian; Jan 2, 2007 at 12:21 PM.
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From: Still here...
Threads don't kill people, people kill threads.
Seriously, the original poster of the thread asked for valid opinions. The "concept" of the thread wasn't so bad... but there are extremists in both crowds that feel the need to makes extreme comments.
Stay above it and don't add to the mud-slinging!
Seriously, the original poster of the thread asked for valid opinions. The "concept" of the thread wasn't so bad... but there are extremists in both crowds that feel the need to makes extreme comments.
Stay above it and don't add to the mud-slinging!
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From: New Jersey
I originally wanted a 993. Then a test drove a 993 and 996 back to back. 993 felt like an old car and the 996 felt like a modern car. I chose the 996.
Test drive both, preferrably back to back, or atleast on the same day. For a daily driver I would say 996 no question, but it's your money, so buy what you like best.
Glenn
Test drive both, preferrably back to back, or atleast on the same day. For a daily driver I would say 996 no question, but it's your money, so buy what you like best.
Glenn
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From: Newport Beach, Ca.
This thread is very entertaining...lol....I am not trying to add fuel to the fire...but How many high mileage 993's are out there? High mileage 996's? I have 121k miles on my 99 996 C4 Cab....I knew I would be putting miles on it as my daily driver so I chose it over the 993. I wanna hear from the high mileage 993 guys...just curious.
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From: Parafield Gardens
Originally Posted by MarkD
Threads don't kill people, people kill threads.
Seriously, the original poster of the thread asked for valid opinions. The "concept" of the thread wasn't so bad... but there are extremists in both crowds that feel the need to makes extreme comments.
Stay above it and don't add to the mud-slinging!
Seriously, the original poster of the thread asked for valid opinions. The "concept" of the thread wasn't so bad... but there are extremists in both crowds that feel the need to makes extreme comments.
Stay above it and don't add to the mud-slinging!
and quite honestly I have had enough of all the malicious crap that is thrown at us personally and our cars by other Porsche model owners on Rennlist and elseswhere. There is always a place for friendly rivalry, but the stuff being thrown at us now is just plain malicious and a lot of lies. Time for 996 owners to fight back we have been quiet for far too long. 
Ciao,
Adrian.
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From: Riverside, CA
Instead of providing commentary on this particular thread, it might be valuable if 996 owners could address the question that was asked by Gatorone2001. These forums should be a valuable resource for people to find answers to their questions, rather than a place where people lucky enough to own 911's bicker and attack one another. What makes a 996 a better choice than a 993 for Gatorone2001?
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Originally Posted by Adrian
I don't know any 996 extremists only 996 haters and quite honestly I have had enough of all the malicious crap that is thrown at us personally and our cars by other Porsche model owners on Rennlist and elseswhere. There is always a place for friendly rivalry, but the stuff being thrown at us now is just plain malicious and a lot of lies. Time for 996 owners to fight back we have been quiet for far too long.
Ciao,
Adrian.
and quite honestly I have had enough of all the malicious crap that is thrown at us personally and our cars by other Porsche model owners on Rennlist and elseswhere. There is always a place for friendly rivalry, but the stuff being thrown at us now is just plain malicious and a lot of lies. Time for 996 owners to fight back we have been quiet for far too long. Ciao,
Adrian.