Ray S

Come on, did you really expect any less from them? There are multiple moldy figs "over there" that relish the opportunity to knock the 996!

What else do they have? The 993 used to be at the top of the Porsche's heap, but is now outclassed in every objective measure by the newer 996 and 997. Acceleration, top speed, weight (yes, the 996 is lighter!), handling, stability, chassis stiffness (the 996 Mk I chassis is over 50% stiffer, 996 Mk II and 997 chassis are stronger still), aerodynamics, even fuel economy, and the list goes on.

So what does that leave you to bitch about if you own a 993 and hate the 996?

- It uses cheap plastics. Not so, have you ever seen a 996 dash crack or split?? How about an older 911?? Some of the early 996, parts were not the best looking, but they are hardly cheap.
- The doors don't "thunk" like they used to. The 996 utilizes "frameless glass". It's much more aerodynamic (but it does not "thunk"), and Porsche also ditched the ugly rain gutters in the process! Additionally, if you ever have an idiot in an SUV barreling down the road at you from the side, which door would you rather be behind? The "cheap" 996 door actually offers much better protection.
- It uses a wet sump (This is often lamented by 993 owners who's closest race experience is watching the Speed Channel from a Lazyboy in their basement). The 996 does use a "wet sump", but one that is specifically modified for high g's (extra pump, enlarged capacity). Hundreds of these cars are DE'd, raced, and run around the "Ring" daily without any problems.
- It doesn't "feel" as "raw". What do you expect? A 1970's Toyota Corolla feels a lot more "raw" than a 1990 Corolla does that make it a better car?? A 3.2 Carrera feels more raw than a 964, which feels more raw than the 993, and so on. What in the world has Porsche been thinking continually improving these cars??? This absolutely must stop before they wreck the brand!!

I love early 911's!!. One day (when I have a bigger garage) I hope to have an early 911. They (including the 993) are special cars. However, the idea that the next new Porsche is junk is more than a little silly and hardly anything new from the "figs". In spite of the fact that many 993'ers think they have the exclusive rights to this idea.

Gatorone2001, do yourself a favor and drive several examples of both cars and pick the one that speaks to you. You will not go wrong with either choice, despite the feelings of some.

Good luck!!

dallasboats

I like the old C2 Turbos in white.

TroyN

Not to be contrary, but I don't think the post was knocking the 996.

MarkD

Agreed. Did you read the post Ray?

pl

one thing about 996 is long service interval
they need minor service(oil change) every 15K
major service every 30K
i am not sure how much service 993 need

vjd3

It's the same interval, by the factory's recommendation, although few enthusiasts wait that long before doing an oil change; I think 7500 is more typical.

I don't see much bashing of the 996 from the 993 crowd ... I think a more telling question is how many longtime 911 owners who went from a 993 to a 996 were happy with their decision. I was one who wasn't, as good as the 996 was, I missed some of the idiosyncracies that make an aircooled 911 an aircooled 911 -- the sound, the ergonomics, the handbuilt feel. But I bought my first 911 in 1990.

I suspect that most people who started their 911 ownership with a 996 might have trouble understanding that longing for the visceral feel of the older car. They might agree cosmetically that the curves and round iconic headlights of the 993 say "911" more than the 996 slab sides and integrated headlights; Porsche agreed, apparently, with the 997's styling. But they probably wouldn't like the older ergonomics and less powerful motor.

Interestingly, as good as the 997 is, some of the 993 crowd who have driven them have been impressed by the car, but are not inclined to trade up, as it were.

I liken it to the oldtime Saab guys who hate the GM cars; they miss the quirkiness, nevermind the better technology and so forth.

And, to further stir up the hornet's nest, there's always Ferry Porsche himself, who gave this quote to Panorama in 1973:

"Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have the radiator in the front, that's just not very intelligent."

But I'm sure he would have loved the handling, power and the brakes on the 996 anyway.

chris walrod

Quite a trite statement, dont you think?

Every new model damn well better be an improved car! Yessir, the 996 is a little lighter and quite a bit stiffer torsionally.

Quality, styling, personality, reliability, repairable engines and transmissions, resale

Wait another five years, I am sure you'll see. I havent personally seen any 993 or 964 do this. Then again, I may need to wait another five years for them to start cracking

Only about 1/4 of the cost of 993 interior parts

And these findings are based upon?? Porsche expended effort in getting the 997 doors to 'thunk' like that of the air cooled cars -- guess there are more 'figs' that you think there are...

I didnt have to buy the scavenge pump and pan upgrade for my 993 to go play on-track-- its truly a bummer my wifes Boxster is on its third engine -- 2003 model with 17k miles on it -- Plastic power steering reservoir melted at the last autocross -- dealer stated that they dont make them like they used to ...and they almost replaced engine #4 because of this?? WTF??


the redesign and subsequent release of the 997 was for a reason

who said us 'figs' say all newer 911's are junk?

The most accurate content of your post, IMHO, or course
Do I like the latest that PORSCHE has to offer?? you betcha I do! Especially with much improved curvy styling and round headlights!!

The 996 was their first stab at cost cutting to the point of hurting quality and reliability. Did the 996-Boxster help get PORSCHE back in the black -- sure did! They profitted on those cars like never before. Since MSRP on the 996 was similar to the 993, wonder where this newfound profit came from??

Porsche_Smile

if you can get a 98 993 go with that.... but i doubt it will fit in your budget. other then that....... 996 has great bargains......

Dave Howerdel

Oh no! Never...I've never heard the 996 being bashed. I posted a link to a sensible post by a 993 owner who can appreciate Porsche's evolution up to and including the 996, yet there were far more, dare I say 996 bashers. No?....

Ray S

I read his post and I agree with his points about some of the 993 guys. I am sorry if that was unclear.

Ray S

No, more like an accurate statement.

Plus, quicker, faster, better handling, superior aerodynamics, improved ergonomics, better fuel economy, and after all that even more comfortable. Porsche really went all out improving the car!!

There's a reason that PCA puts the 993 in a lower class for Club Racing...

I forgot that the 933 was the perfect Porsche. Let me name the ways....
(Clogged SAI's, Worn Valve Guides, Lower Valve cover gasket leaks, Drive belt tension sensors squeeks and squeels, alternator pully failures, flywheel seal leaks, gearbox selector seal leaks, etc).

One Porsche magazine even went so far as to suggest that if you are planning on buying a 993, you should have some money stashed aways for inevitable problems.

I don't remember ever claiming the 996 was perfect. Looks like it (996) shares that DNA with the 993.

I will, and I doubt it.

Improved side impact protection from reinforced doors.

I guess many of them aren't that hard to fool. Take a 996, add some new headlights, widen the hips, and make the doors thunk better and some are appeased. Pssssst, I hate to break it to you, the 997 is basically an improved 996 engine and chassis with a new body on top and a spiffy new interior.

And I have not had to purchase a pump or a pan to go play with my 986 on track.

Well that proves it, your bad luck shows that every 996/986 is bad.

I am absolutely positive that none of the 993's that Porsche shipped were lemons..

as was the redesign (of the 993) and subsequent release of the 996. A car that has proven to be far more popular than the 993 ever was.

Porsche introduced the 993 (and even made it cheaper to buy than the 964) and it was not even close to the sales success of the 996. I guess there are more people that liked the 996!
=================================================
Chris, I'm really glad you are enjoying your 993. I have really enjoyed my 986 and 996. You are certainly welcome to your opinions (as I am to mine). My only point in all of this is that people in glass Porsche's shouldn't throw stones.

Love the one you're with.

Adrian

Dave,
Usually I do not comment on these threads, but the level of posting on the 993 forum against the 996 and its owners "like we are not real Porsche people" and sprouting lies that the 996 engine is somehow related to a Subaru engine makes me ashamed to have anything to do with Rennlist sometimes.
There are quite few people over there that I have helped in the past that are now off my Christmas card list. You cannot deliberately and maliciously insult fellow Porsche owners and their rides with impunity forever.
Sadly Rennlist has changed, but for the record I have never had the desire to own a 993 which itself was an ecomonic compromise due to the massive financial problems Porsche found themselves in at the time.
The 993 was justifiably in its day the King of Porsche, but the King is dead, and the Monarchy has been replaced by the Porsche Republic.
Long live the Emperor and may his waters not spread across the land.
Ciao,
Adrian.

PS: How many of the 993 owners slagging off against the 996 are driving non modified cars? If you compare a stock standard US version model year 1995 993 Carrera on 16 inch wheels against a 964 Carrera RS it was like driving a lumbering whale in comparison. Most of these 993 owners have had to modify their cars or have purchased modified versions in order to "improve the basic 993, which in itself was a major improvement over the standard 964 was not comparable to the performance versions of the 964 series. The same applies when comparing a 993 on PS9s to a stock standard US version 996. Not that any of us would like to let the truth get in the way of a good story.

PSS: Some of these 993 owners should read Ferry Porsche's story. There are two books out there that he helped pen. If Studebaker had not got into trouble the second Porsche into series production (first being Type 356 and the second Type 575) would have been a 4-door, compact sedan with a V6 watercooled engine. To quote Ferry Porsche from his 1978 book co-written with J. Bentley: "I don't care if the engine is air-cooled or water-cooled".

mkc4s

Cars are best judged, like in figure skating, on technical value and on artistic impression. Everybody knows that 996 has better technical value, but 993 shines in artistic impression.

In long term, the artistic impression can grow, while technical value sinks relative to the newer cars. A nice 356 can cost $50K, ten times more than new one was 50 years ago. On the other hand, 928 was a great technical value when new, but most 928's are now in "delayed maintenance state" (i.e., broken and not being fixed), and sell for few thousand dollars.

The future of 993 is like 356 and the future of 996 is like 928.

Adrian

Kool a 993 owner comes to the 996 forum and not only insults 996 owners and their cars he also says 928s are junk as well.
Somehow I don't think you will get invited to any events run by 996 or 928 owners in the Pacific Northwest.

Ray S

Figure Skating??? Are you serious??

Hey guess what, the public has already "judged" these cars with their pocketbooks and it was a "knockout". The 996 far outsold the 993.

However, total numbers produced also has a tremendous impact of future depreciation. Which is a large factor in why the 996 has depreciated more quickly than the 993. Additionally, the 996 is only the first in what looks to be a long line of water-cooled 911's. The 993 is (at least for now) the last of the air-cooled cars, and as such will always have a special place in the hearts of many.

As for the 928, it's one of the most beautiful cars Porsche has ever produced IMHO. I still stop and stare when I see a GTS drive by!!

Maybe that's why Porsche is considering a new 928?