997 lines vs. 996 lines vs. 993 lines!!
#46
Racer
Again, I like the 993's, but I still am not a big fan of the front end. It's too rounded. Yes, the hips are nice, but the front end drags it down, imo.
#47
Three Wheelin'
Javier always love seeing your car.
I personally think my favorite 911 variants in terms of aesthetics are the 935 in full moby dick mode(ok so that doesn't count), and on the street the 930 (turbo) flatnose. The 930 widebodies are all great, even with lamps! And a 964 widebody? I'll take it.
Myfavorite thing about a 993 is that it looks like a 959 from the front. They aren't my first choice at all. I do love the Ruf turbo 993 variants, as well as the factory turbo and turbo S. If I could get that sort of tailbase on a 996 997 I would. One day when I have a much bigger garage I will likely put one of the 993 RUF cars in it.
I do love the way the mk2 996 looks, so aggressive and modern (but I'm a slant fan), however I don't love the mk2 aero/gt3 rear wing. I think the 997 C4, turbo, and GT3RS look great as well, and wouldn't kick the narrowbody out of my garage either, provided I am permitted some body colored trim rings to sharpen up the lamps a little! But I don't think I'd ever sell my 996, that's me though, I don't sell things.
For those of you who believe the 996 has depreciated much more rapidly than the 997, you're out of touch with reality. No 911 has depreciated as rapidly as the 997. Run the auction numbers against the MSRPs, compare sales prices of 2005 997s today (not ask, settle, auction) against historical sales prices of 1999 cars in 2003, then depreciate against MSRPs. If you'd rather not do the math, there was an extensive, comprehensive and empirical post on this topic a month or two ago. If fashion is ephemeral, supply and demand are inexorable. That means that even though the 997 is in many ways superior in terms of creature comforts, engine options, and in the eyes of many interior and exterior styling, a mk1 997 will be worth 20K or less in 2015, 9-10 years old. CPO 997s like this one http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national are settling for under 40, and out of warranty cars mid 30s all day http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national. Don't believe me? Get a 1 day Galves subscription. In 2006, you could not buy a 4-5 year old Mk2 996 this cheaply, and the MSRPs on the 997 with the same typical options as the mk2 996 is generally 10% greater. So as far as I'm concerned, the 997 is technically the best value today for me, as I'm going to drive it a lot, care about warranty coverage, etc. Would I sell my 996? Not unless I had to, but then I have trouble selling anything.
And there are plenty of 993s, mostly the ones which were driven, which are incredibly affordable to acquire:
http://www.ecarlist.com/cgi-bin/show...10098&d_id=947
Well, on that note, I'm back in NY tomorrow, hope the weather cooperates with me driving the P! And I hope you guys have a Happy Thanksgiving!
I personally think my favorite 911 variants in terms of aesthetics are the 935 in full moby dick mode(ok so that doesn't count), and on the street the 930 (turbo) flatnose. The 930 widebodies are all great, even with lamps! And a 964 widebody? I'll take it.
Myfavorite thing about a 993 is that it looks like a 959 from the front. They aren't my first choice at all. I do love the Ruf turbo 993 variants, as well as the factory turbo and turbo S. If I could get that sort of tailbase on a 996 997 I would. One day when I have a much bigger garage I will likely put one of the 993 RUF cars in it.
I do love the way the mk2 996 looks, so aggressive and modern (but I'm a slant fan), however I don't love the mk2 aero/gt3 rear wing. I think the 997 C4, turbo, and GT3RS look great as well, and wouldn't kick the narrowbody out of my garage either, provided I am permitted some body colored trim rings to sharpen up the lamps a little! But I don't think I'd ever sell my 996, that's me though, I don't sell things.
For those of you who believe the 996 has depreciated much more rapidly than the 997, you're out of touch with reality. No 911 has depreciated as rapidly as the 997. Run the auction numbers against the MSRPs, compare sales prices of 2005 997s today (not ask, settle, auction) against historical sales prices of 1999 cars in 2003, then depreciate against MSRPs. If you'd rather not do the math, there was an extensive, comprehensive and empirical post on this topic a month or two ago. If fashion is ephemeral, supply and demand are inexorable. That means that even though the 997 is in many ways superior in terms of creature comforts, engine options, and in the eyes of many interior and exterior styling, a mk1 997 will be worth 20K or less in 2015, 9-10 years old. CPO 997s like this one http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national are settling for under 40, and out of warranty cars mid 30s all day http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national. Don't believe me? Get a 1 day Galves subscription. In 2006, you could not buy a 4-5 year old Mk2 996 this cheaply, and the MSRPs on the 997 with the same typical options as the mk2 996 is generally 10% greater. So as far as I'm concerned, the 997 is technically the best value today for me, as I'm going to drive it a lot, care about warranty coverage, etc. Would I sell my 996? Not unless I had to, but then I have trouble selling anything.
And there are plenty of 993s, mostly the ones which were driven, which are incredibly affordable to acquire:
http://www.ecarlist.com/cgi-bin/show...10098&d_id=947
Well, on that note, I'm back in NY tomorrow, hope the weather cooperates with me driving the P! And I hope you guys have a Happy Thanksgiving!
#50
Burning Brakes
I like your post, but you are leaving out other exterior factors, like economic conditions, which extremely affect prices.
John
John
Javier always love seeing your car.
I personally think my favorite 911 variants in terms of aesthetics are the 935 in full moby dick mode(ok so that doesn't count), and on the street the 930 (turbo) flatnose. The 930 widebodies are all great, even with lamps! And a 964 widebody? I'll take it.
Myfavorite thing about a 993 is that it looks like a 959 from the front. They aren't my first choice at all. I do love the Ruf turbo 993 variants, as well as the factory turbo and turbo S. If I could get that sort of tailbase on a 996 997 I would. One day when I have a much bigger garage I will likely put one of the 993 RUF cars in it.
I do love the way the mk2 996 looks, so aggressive and modern (but I'm a slant fan), however I don't love the mk2 aero/gt3 rear wing. I think the 997 C4, turbo, and GT3RS look great as well, and wouldn't kick the narrowbody out of my garage either, provided I am permitted some body colored trim rings to sharpen up the lamps a little! But I don't think I'd ever sell my 996, that's me though, I don't sell things.
For those of you who believe the 996 has depreciated much more rapidly than the 997, you're out of touch with reality. No 911 has depreciated as rapidly as the 997. Run the auction numbers against the MSRPs, compare sales prices of 2005 997s today (not ask, settle, auction) against historical sales prices of 1999 cars in 2003, then depreciate against MSRPs. If you'd rather not do the math, there was an extensive, comprehensive and empirical post on this topic a month or two ago. If fashion is ephemeral, supply and demand are inexorable. That means that even though the 997 is in many ways superior in terms of creature comforts, engine options, and in the eyes of many interior and exterior styling, a mk1 997 will be worth 20K or less in 2015, 9-10 years old. CPO 997s like this one http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national are settling for under 40, and out of warranty cars mid 30s all day http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national. Don't believe me? Get a 1 day Galves subscription. In 2006, you could not buy a 4-5 year old Mk2 996 this cheaply, and the MSRPs on the 997 with the same typical options as the mk2 996 is generally 10% greater. So as far as I'm concerned, the 997 is technically the best value today for me, as I'm going to drive it a lot, care about warranty coverage, etc. Would I sell my 996? Not unless I had to, but then I have trouble selling anything.
And there are plenty of 993s, mostly the ones which were driven, which are incredibly affordable to acquire:
http://www.ecarlist.com/cgi-bin/show...10098&d_id=947
Well, on that note, I'm back in NY tomorrow, hope the weather cooperates with me driving the P! And I hope you guys have a Happy Thanksgiving!
I personally think my favorite 911 variants in terms of aesthetics are the 935 in full moby dick mode(ok so that doesn't count), and on the street the 930 (turbo) flatnose. The 930 widebodies are all great, even with lamps! And a 964 widebody? I'll take it.
Myfavorite thing about a 993 is that it looks like a 959 from the front. They aren't my first choice at all. I do love the Ruf turbo 993 variants, as well as the factory turbo and turbo S. If I could get that sort of tailbase on a 996 997 I would. One day when I have a much bigger garage I will likely put one of the 993 RUF cars in it.
I do love the way the mk2 996 looks, so aggressive and modern (but I'm a slant fan), however I don't love the mk2 aero/gt3 rear wing. I think the 997 C4, turbo, and GT3RS look great as well, and wouldn't kick the narrowbody out of my garage either, provided I am permitted some body colored trim rings to sharpen up the lamps a little! But I don't think I'd ever sell my 996, that's me though, I don't sell things.
For those of you who believe the 996 has depreciated much more rapidly than the 997, you're out of touch with reality. No 911 has depreciated as rapidly as the 997. Run the auction numbers against the MSRPs, compare sales prices of 2005 997s today (not ask, settle, auction) against historical sales prices of 1999 cars in 2003, then depreciate against MSRPs. If you'd rather not do the math, there was an extensive, comprehensive and empirical post on this topic a month or two ago. If fashion is ephemeral, supply and demand are inexorable. That means that even though the 997 is in many ways superior in terms of creature comforts, engine options, and in the eyes of many interior and exterior styling, a mk1 997 will be worth 20K or less in 2015, 9-10 years old. CPO 997s like this one http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national are settling for under 40, and out of warranty cars mid 30s all day http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national. Don't believe me? Get a 1 day Galves subscription. In 2006, you could not buy a 4-5 year old Mk2 996 this cheaply, and the MSRPs on the 997 with the same typical options as the mk2 996 is generally 10% greater. So as far as I'm concerned, the 997 is technically the best value today for me, as I'm going to drive it a lot, care about warranty coverage, etc. Would I sell my 996? Not unless I had to, but then I have trouble selling anything.
And there are plenty of 993s, mostly the ones which were driven, which are incredibly affordable to acquire:
http://www.ecarlist.com/cgi-bin/show...10098&d_id=947
Well, on that note, I'm back in NY tomorrow, hope the weather cooperates with me driving the P! And I hope you guys have a Happy Thanksgiving!
#51
Instructor
There is a great trade-off with the horribly ugly 996 headlights. They make for a remarkably cheap car for us. Seriously, we get a $50,000 car for $20,000 because the headlights are so terrible and we don't have to see them from behind the wheel. That's a great deal in my opinion.
#52
Three Wheelin'
Basically both models depreciated almost exactly in line with their respective relative production volumes, and the acceleration in the Mk1 997s depreciation over the 996 on a years in service basis is attributable to the fact that they were released at the very height of the credit bubble, and are being returned at or near the depths of the bust. This doesn't mean that the 997 didn't depreciate faster, the asterisk doesn't change the dollars and cents of it, or the notion that buying a 2005 or 2006 997 today presents a better value than buying a 2002 or 2003 996 in 2006 did, and that's without adjusting for the value of the dollar, American or Canadian. I've bored enough of you already, but if you need a nap see:
https://rennlist.com/forums/6944571-post16.html
#53
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
If you must have traditional round headlights, both 996 variants fail, period! I personally don't care.
#54
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Regarding the body lines, with the 996 Porsche kind of brought back the "bathtub" lines of the 356.
-- Part of the reason for that is more room needed under the rear deck to support the water-cooling, so the overall lines really had to be modifed with the first 996.
(and yes, I love Javier's Ruf, too!)
#56
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Awesome shots Dan! What are the odds of finding the same color 993 AND staying at the Overlook Hotel? You are the caretaker, you've always been the caretaker!
May I be so bold as to say the 997 has nicer lines?
May I be so bold as to say the 997 has nicer lines?
Last edited by AndyK; 11-25-2009 at 09:39 AM.
#58
What it shows you is that the design of the 997 was the work of the marketing department. I think it's a very pretty car, but I can't get past the idea that Porsche did this as a response to consumer whining. What I've always liked about Porsche is that they do pretty much what they damn please and don't pay much attention to focus groups. The 996, whether you love it or hate it, was their genuine effort to reimagine the 911. The 997 is a crowd pleaser.
#60
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member