P.S. - Thank you Mike for expressing the important points over and over.

Turbo Look,

No problem. I'm used to having to repeat the important stuff over and over. I have teenagers.

Mike

 

hey! That teenager comment wasn't necesary! hehe We just have a tendency to forget things that we dont like to remember...like our curfue...that we have homework...to cut the grass...But we remember to wash our cars!!!

Who cares anyway? Porsche, chevy, honda, kia, ford..They're just get you from point A to point B right?

Guy 1: "But I can get from A to B faster than you can."

Guy 2: "No you can't...you'll get your license suspended due to excessive speeding tickets/reckless driving tickets and then I'll be able to drive next to you as you walk. "

 

I occasionally get over here to the 996 board to read the posts. After reading Maxeemum's comments on this one (and his previous post on the '02 996), I have one thing to say, I'm glad he stays off the 993 board.
He's just creating emotion to get reaction and demonstrating his lack of maturity by not considering other people's opinions. Hey Max are you ready to sell your 996? I'm in the market.

 

Are you sure that he has a Porsche ?
Maybe he is not real and writes only
on that board to annoy us.;-)

cu

styx

 

I'll try to make this simple. I didn't hear anybody say that the vette was a better car, only that it out performed the 996tt in the C&D test. Since then a littany of corvettte "deficiencies" have been espoused as well as opinions on anyone who would drive such a car, consiracy theories relating to the test and even possible driver disadvantages for the 996. They sent Hurley freakin Haywood. Who do we need to make it fair Michael Schumacher? So we understand each other, I didn't even say I would rather have the vette. But when Chevtolet's "ultimate" sportscar out performs Porsche's "ultimate" sportscar at 40% of the price, IMHO that is a deficiency. Your opinion may vary.

 

Carlos, you keep banging on and on about how the Z06 outperforms the 996tt. Has ONE PERSON here disagreed? Is this SOLELY your criteria for buying a car. Are there no other considerations in your decision making process other than 'it goes faster'? How much faster are we talking about, Carlos? Will you (and I mean you personally) exploit those few 10ths sec? Are you saying that the Porsche is dog slow? How many cars can you list that will beat the Porsche, if lap times are really all that important to you? What makes you think that Porsche are on a sinking ship because one car is slightly faster than it? Are you going to level those same criticisms against Corvette when something comes out in 12 months time that is 1/2 second faster?

I think you need to seriously ask yourself those questions.

Eric

 

Here's a trend we're apt to see more of. I can see a US bound GT3 on the horizon!

More competition for the Z06 and 996TT

 

Well, here I go. Lurking the 911-variant boards is my usual style, but this topic just begs for some followup.

Who cares if the Z06 Corvette beat the 996TT in C&D or R&T? I look at the two cars sitting side by side, and I naturally -want- the Porsche. Why? It's a Porsche. I've owned two myself (not 996TT cars, though) and I can confidently say that for me, personally, there would be no greater driving reward than to own a 996TT.

What about the Z06? It's a FINE car. To Maxxeemmum - If you want a fast car and want to save $75K - buy a Z06, and I'm sure you'll be happy with it. But then, don't come to Rennlist spouting off about how your car is faster, or handles better, and how you saved 75K over the cost of a 996TT - primarily because nobody here will care.

Greg

 

Maxeemun and Carlos, what car would you choose for yourselves if their were priced exactly the same?the Z06 or 996TT?
Ok then, the reasons for choosing the 996TT for some people are worth the extra money they need to pay for, period! If you are not willing to pay or can´t (I had to settle with a 996C4) then tough and go buy a Z06 and shut up.

Anyway, I can´t conclude from that fishy C&D test that the Z06 is a better handler or measurably faster than the 996TT, don´t get me wrong I couldn´t care less if it is marginally faster than the 996TT. Show me consistent superior Nurburgring track lap times or a couple of articles from more prestigious car magazines such as Sporcar International or other. If you can draw firm conclusions from a test like that, then you are very naive.

BTW I do think Porsche has gone a little soft lately, on top of that the SUV project is ridiculous. But Porsche always ends up going back on track. After all no one can disagree that the Porsche 911 is the most succesful car in motor racing.

Carlos from Spain

 

If C&D had wanted to get lap times ONLY then that would have been the test. They didn't. Race cars turn great lap times. They suck on the street. That's why when I see some boy racer wannabee with his 180hp 911 slammed down on the ground with a cage in it, I laugh. No A/C, brutal ride, horrible comfort, acceleration like a school bus. But he can corner faster than me. I'm crushed. C&D included acceleration and braking as well because they wanted a "real world" performance comparison. I think the test they devised was very well thought out.

So how often have you lapped the Nurburgring? Seeing as that would require shipping my car across the atlantic, that's not in my immediate plans. And trust me my boy there are a lot of seiously fast cars that have never seen the Nurburgring. Hans Stuck turned 7.49 (7sec. faster than a 996tt) in a 12 cyl X5. So what. Personally, I don't deal in the etherial world of multi hundred k supercars. So that has the same impact on me as knowing that the space schuttle goes 17k mph. If you think that a 120k 996tt getting beat by a 50k Z06 is something to brag about then get to it. I don't. And as for your C4, I would never spend that much money on a car that slow. To each his own.

 

There you go about performance again - the lights are on, but no one is home, eh Carlos?

Do you often just consult one source of information before making your mind up so categorically on something?

Wow, look who's the marketing mens dream now...

All I can say is thank god we've got an expert on this list, looks like he Forums going to be going very quiet soon, what with all the trade ins to Z06's happening up and down the country.

Question, why do you still own a Porsche, when an IROC Z or Camero or similar American muscle car could beat you for a fraction of the cost?

Eric

 

Yeah Eric! (but no offense intended to the others posting here). Eric just shares my personal perspective about my '99 C4. I know its not the fastest car on the road, but I LOVE IT and couldn't imagine trading for anything else (except a 911 turbo). Everyday when I finish my winding country road drive home from work (I use my car as a daily driver)I feel exhilerated. Why? not for pure speed - I've driven faster cars - its the package, the look, the feel - its a great car. The Z06 is, from all I've read, a great performance car and it sounds like its faster and quicker than the 911. I haven't driven it, but I've driven other vettes - they just don't do it for me the way a 911 does. That being said, there are vette lovers (you can find them on a vette forum and some of them are my friends) who feel that way about their cars and can't imagine driving a 911 (at least instead of a vette). Thats ok - thats why both cars are made (and sold) and thats why each car is made in many colors - people just have different perspectives. If there is a dispute over performance numbers v. performance numbers, thats a fair fight, but its not worth fighting over subjective differences of opinion.

 

Carlos:"when I see some boy racer wannabee with his 180hp 911 slammed down on the ground with a cage in it, I laugh"

Just make sure its not an "old" 2000lbs. ´73 911 2.7RS. He will be the one laughing after he beats you senseless

Carlos:"And as for your C4, I would never spend that much money on a car that slow."

Well, luky for me, I´m not you . Have you ever driven to the limit a 911C4 (sport chasis, 18" wheels and aerokit)? Obviously not, if you make that statement. Maybe you read it in a C&D article right?

Oh, and thats comming from an overweight 3660lbs 5liter on the front ´87 928 S4? now thats Porsche´s fastest and best handler right? Whats the top speed on that 165mph? (stock - not counting the K&N filter ) You think you can keep up with a 996 4wd on an european highway? reached 173mph (slight downhill of course but ran out of road)coming back from work this thursday, not to mention cornering speed and breaking... I´m not dishing your car just think about what you say before you post.
To each his own I say.

Carlos from Spain.

 

According to the link that Jim Sullivan posted ( BMW M3 CSL ) "This concept comes with a 19" wheel and tire combo for maximumm stability and handling, while 18" brakes provide ample stopping power."

18" Brakes...in 19" wheels? Come on now lets be serious...There's no possible way that 18" brakes are necesary for a 3200lbs car...and no possible way that 18" discs could fit under 19" wheels.

"Tested at the Nurburgring, the M3 CSL covered the northern circuit in well under eight minutes, besting the production M3 by a staggering 30 seconds."
Well under 8 minutes? I'm just curious how well under the actual time is. Is it 5 seconds? is it 2 seconds? 10 seconds? who knows?!

 

I would like to quote some performance figures from November 2000 Motor Trend's High Speed Shootout. The 996TT was tested against eight other cars including the Z06. The Z06 tested was an 2001 model(02' has 20Hp more and some minor changes.) 0-100-0 Porsche 14.2, Z06 14.56. Advantage Porsche. One Mile acceleration Porsche 30.89@161.58, Z06 31.32@160.73. Advantage Porsche. Slalom Porsche 68.60 MPH, Z06 68.50 MPH. Advantage Porsche. 0-60 MPH Porsche 3.98, Z06 4.34. Advantage Porsche. 1/4 mile Porsche 11.92@116.09, Z06 12.59@112.38. Advantage Porsche. Braking 60-0 Porsche 116', Z06 111'. Advantage Z06. Maximum lateral G Porsche .97, Z06 .98. Advantage Z06.
So it looks like the Porsche is not only holding it's own but beating the Vette in almost every test.