Maxeemum

The problems that the 996TT currently has with the Corvette Z06, is exactly what the 996 is going to have with it competitors. The C36 may not be the perfect competitor to the 996 now, but neither was the C5 Corvette the perfect competitor to the 996TT, that is until the Z06.

If Porsche, and the rest of the readers on this post can't understand this relationship then we will continue seeing below-par products made by Porsche and purchased by ignorant buyers.

The problems with the 996 is really just the tip of the iceberg. Remember 3/4 of an iceberg lies below the surface, and Porsche's "hull" will be ripped right open if someone doesn't steer the ship in the right direction.

Beliveing in your own BULLSH*T!, is a terrible disease. And right now Porsche has that dogmatic opinion that anything American is junk. Well, wake up guys!

styx

Hi Maxeemum,

what porsche do you have ?
And which porsche did you have in the past ?

cu

styx

Graygoose997

Why do you continue to buy, discuss, and for that matter drive, a car from what you obviously view as a doomed, inferior manufacturer? Why don't you move on to a Vette already and raise your self esteem ? Perry

Maxeemum

Lets stick with the argument Perry, and don't attack the person.

I am interested in your view on the topic, not interested in your opinion about me, in any way.

So if you don't have an opinion, don't post.

It sounds like you are one of those guys who believes in their own bullsh*t. So now that you have succeeded in establishing that, move on.

Eric Kasir

Maxeemum,

Why come on a Porsche board and slag off Porsches, who are you trying to convince here?

People buy Porsches for amongst other things the name and the heritage of the company, not necessarily because it is the fastest thing on the road in a straight line. I get a big buzz from owning a Porsche as a marque, as well as the overall driving experience it gives me. I really couldn't give a damn that some 'Vette or another can beat me off the lights etc. If that was all I was interested in, I would have kept my seriously modified Twin Turbo Toyota Supra, which would have kicked the butt of most stock factory cars.

People buy the Porsche for what it is, and not purely 0-60 times.

Eric

Maxeemum

Buying something b/c of the marque is crap. You are believing your own bullsh*t if you do. But that's what marketing is all about.
And you my friend are a marketer's dream. You believe the hype, form without substance.

Carlos

Oh Eric, reat the test. Yes the vette won the acceleration test. But it also won the braking test and tragicly, it out handled the 996tt cosing 2 1/2 times as much. But let's not criticize. We can all just join the flat earth society.

Maxeemum

Eric it's ok to have an opinion, but at least have an informed opinion. Read the test in Road and Track Z06 vs 996TT. The Z06 beat the 996TT in EVERY category, not just 0-60 times.

Eric Kasir

Maxeemum & Carlos, have you understood a single word I have said?? I don't care for Corvette, the car doesn't do anything for me emotionally and this is a large part of car ownership (for me anyway). If you two are the kind of guys that go looking for races at every traffic light, then fair enough, buy whatever goes the fastest on the market at that particular time. You will ALWAYS come up against something quicker than you. Buy your Z06 and then you might find yourself sitting next to a SARD modified Skyline R34 which would destroy you in a 'street race' (ie straight line). What then?? Go and sell your 'Vette because you are slower?? Hmmmm....

I am not believing my own bull****, because I am quite happy to admit there are faster things out there on the road, there always is. Owning a Porsche makes me feel happy, and surely that is what buying your dream car is about?

Think you guys need to calm it a bit with reading the back pages of performance car magazines, desperately trying to find the fastest car on four wheels amongst all the stats.

Ho hum
Eric

Graygoose997

<Lets stick with the argument Perry, and don't attack the person.I am interested in your view on the topic, not interested in your opinion about me, in any way.>
Bitching and whining about how "my car isn't the fastest" is not an arguement. The problem is not with the car, but your perception of what you think the car should be. Does the job of imaginary product manager also have an imaginary paycheck ?

Jim Sullivan

The test in Car and Driver was a bit fishy. This magazine has always been suspect in many respects (heck.. they admit making up letters to the editor. What kind of magazine would do that with a straight face?). Although I admit I am, from time to time, a subscriber to it. It's fun to read about this or that, but the testing itself was strange. Did you see the exit speed differences between the various cars, for instance?

There are many variables between drivers going on, they should have had the same driver for each car, same tires, etc. and I would suggest that, on any given day the stock TT and the Z06 are going to be close in performance, but so what. A slight mod here or there would make a huge difference on the track with relatively little streetable difference. I regularly blow by current Z06's on the track with a plainjane 993 with suspension mods only and skinny 205X50X17's up front, to make a point.

Having said all of that, I do think that this particular article will cause a watershed of sorts in Porsche management's thinking. 3500 lbs. does not a "sports car" make, plain and simple. If Porsche is to continue on with their longstanding heritage, they must offer lighter, less well-equipped cars for the masses (strike GT2 from that offing). If they wish to offer these alongside their heavier, luxurious counterparts, which is essentially what Chevy is doing with the Z06, then so be it.

European makers have all taken to making incredibly heavy cars IMO. Yuch!

Carlos

Now I understand. It was never implied that a 996tt was supposed to be fast?

Eric, unless I take a Z06 to Japan, I will probably not pull up next to a Nissan Skyline. But you keep referring back to "straight line performance." Go get the current C&D and read the article. The Z06 beat the 996tt on the road course part of the test. Now I'm sure there were some straight sections of the road course. But I'm also quit sure the it included some turns as well.

Mike in CA

Maxeemum,

Since you say it's ok to have an opinion (thanks!), as long as it's informed (I like to think so), here's mine. Although I haven't yet received my issue of R&T with the test you mention I don't particularly care that the Z06 tested by R&T beat the 996TT. There are many factors, subjective and objective, that determine my choices on everything, including cars. For you raw numbers apparently are the be-all and end-all when comparing vehicles. Nothing is wrong with that…for YOU. The problem is that somehow you have reached the conclusion that because those numbers are most important to YOU, that they should be most important to EVERYBODY. In fact, you seem to believe that anyone who appreciates the overall experience of driving a car like a Porsche, (how it looks, how it's built, what it feels like to drive etc.) and buys one for THAT reason, is somehow a Porsche apologist, or buried in "bullsh*t" with an "uninformed" opinion.

Since I own a 996, I could obviously have afforded to buy a Z06. But I don't WANT a Z06. I don't particularly care for the body style, the interior seems cheap to me, I don't like the driving position, the car feels too big…I could go on. I'm not saying that performance is unimportant. But the 996 (or the 996TT) offer performance that is so far beyond what I can reasonably use on public roads that it completely satisfies that requirement for me. That fact that the Z06, in the hands of a particular driver in some specific test is a few tenths quicker is pretty much irrelevant.

I don't need Porsche (or you) to convince me via marketing or any other medium what is best for me, or what I like. I'm a mature adult, have owned dozens of cars, and am totally capable of making my own decisions. For me, and I suspect many others who post on this board, the Porsche is overall simply a better choice than the Corvette. Despite what you may think, that is not "bullsh*t", it is simply the majority opinion around here, based on factors that go beyond test numbers, and it happens to be a different opinion than yours. Trying to compare cars based simply on test data is like deciding to marry a woman based on her physical measurements…you may be satisfied in one area, but overall it may be a very poor match.

It's curious that there seem to be so many posts on the Porsche boards that attempt to put down Porsches because they give up a few ticks on the clock to the odd Viper/Vette/M3, whatever. I don't spend a lot of time trolling other boards, but I wonder how many Porsche owners spend their time putting down other marques on their discussion boards. It's hard to believe that someone who continually posts about the negative side of Porsche on a Porsche board is trying to redeem Porsche "sinners" for their own good or the health of the company. No, I suspect a different agenda.

If you really feel that strongly about it, maybe you should write a letter to Porsche and let them know your thoughts, sparing us all the constant repetition of your "Porsche is doomed" mantra. For maxeemum effect (sorry couldn't help it) make sure to include a copy of the bill of sale when you get rid of your current Porsche (which model was it that you own, again?) and the invoice for that new Z06 you will be buying. I guarantee that will have a greater effect on Porsche's future than trying to convince us poor uninformed Porsche owners that we didn't know how to spend our hard-earned money.

Mike

Sloth

I just registered to post but I have been lurking here for months now.

This thread has convinced me that I need to sell my 996. I can not handle being in a slow car. I am going down this eve to trade in for a new Z06. Yea right,

Probably a more accurate comparison would have been between the GT2 and the Z06. Both cars are really made for the track. I consider the TT to be more of a luxury sports car with a lot of amenities that you will not find in said Vette.

The point of this is not that the Vette is a bad car. I respect them when I see one on the road. It is just not the car for me and that is my own preference.

I do think the Vette is interesting. In order for them to compete in ALMS and Grand Am they had to build a complete works car from scratch and run it in an empty class (GTS). Anybody ever see the C5's run in the GT production class against the GT3's and M3GTR's? I am pretty sure a team tried at Sebring.

Just throwing fuel on the fire...

Eric Kasir

Carlos, if you are doing the sort of speeds that put a car to it's limit on the public highway, you deserve to be locked up. Oh yes, I often do 150mph on my commute through traffic to work. Do you often go tailsliding through intersections whilst carrying out one of your fantasy traffic light grand prix?

OK, now put yourself in a Z06, then a 996 on the track - are you really going to be able to get the absolute limit out of either car. If the Z06 beats the 996 by a couple of tenths, so what, lets put things in perspective here, either car is more than competent on the track. Of course if you are worried about competing in a race series, you wouldn't buy either of these, you would have a stripped out race car.

Let's get a grip here guys.

Eric