Why don't all Porsche owners track their cars?
03-29-2003, 12:24 PM
#32
Drifting
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's cool,family comes first. I have even taken the kids with me once, but it does make for a long weekend away from the family. I wish PCA offered one day DE events, I have started to only go up on saturday and blow off the second day.I believe everyone should get out to the track at least once, it really makes you appreciate the engineering. Your P-car driving ability will also improve greatly even after one time at the track. Plus it's a hell of a lot of fun.
03-29-2003, 01:20 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
That's fairly close to how I do it, Doug. My wife and four kids come with me either the thursday night or friday morn of the weekend. We all stay at the same hotel. We spend at least one full day together, and we all sleep in the same place. They usually join me for lunch at the track as well.
If you keep the family involved in your obsession, it becomes a family affair
.
If you keep the family involved in your obsession, it becomes a family affair
.
03-29-2003, 02:43 PM
#34
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Eleven years ago, I did the old Porsche Owners Driving School with Derek Bell and Vic Elford. In that school, you used your own car.
At the end of it, Bell pointed out that we all had driven our cars hard all day, and no one had a problem. He said these cars are made for just this kind of use.
That was the day I stopped treating my Porsches as if they were something fragile. And started having fun with them.
Track days will go through consumables - tires and brakes - much quicker than street driving, without doubt. However that does not mean you are being unduly hard on your car.
At a DE or track day you do not have to drive at 10/10ths of your ability (which btw, for most of us is nowhere near 10/10ths of the car's ability).
Go at the pace you find comfortable. You will be well within it's performance envelope. Never forget that the car was designed for just this kind of use.
You will learn skills most people do not have. You will be a better driver. And you will find it all exhilerating.
What's not talked about as frequently, but that I find just as rewarding as the track high, are the people I've met. They are car nuts just like me, and a ball to be with. Some of my best friendships have started at the track.
If you're concerned about your car, sign up for the PDE two-day, or an event like it. You'll see those 996s, ones just like yours, are driven hard day-in and day-out, and are none the worse for it.
And you'll discover why so many Rennlisters babble on and on about "the track".
At the end of it, Bell pointed out that we all had driven our cars hard all day, and no one had a problem. He said these cars are made for just this kind of use.
That was the day I stopped treating my Porsches as if they were something fragile. And started having fun with them.
Track days will go through consumables - tires and brakes - much quicker than street driving, without doubt. However that does not mean you are being unduly hard on your car.
At a DE or track day you do not have to drive at 10/10ths of your ability (which btw, for most of us is nowhere near 10/10ths of the car's ability).
Go at the pace you find comfortable. You will be well within it's performance envelope. Never forget that the car was designed for just this kind of use.
You will learn skills most people do not have. You will be a better driver. And you will find it all exhilerating.
What's not talked about as frequently, but that I find just as rewarding as the track high, are the people I've met. They are car nuts just like me, and a ball to be with. Some of my best friendships have started at the track.
If you're concerned about your car, sign up for the PDE two-day, or an event like it. You'll see those 996s, ones just like yours, are driven hard day-in and day-out, and are none the worse for it.
And you'll discover why so many Rennlisters babble on and on about "the track".
03-29-2003, 03:24 PM
#35
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Great post, Mike! I heartily agree.
-Grant
88 944TS
04 GT3 waiter
-Grant
88 944TS
04 GT3 waiter
03-29-2003, 03:48 PM
#36
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Whoa, Grant, a GT-3?!!!! Very cool.
Now that's a track car.
Will you indeed track it?
Or will you keep the 951 for the track?
Please post your reactions to the GT-3 when you get it.
Now that's a track car.
Will you indeed track it?
Or will you keep the 951 for the track?
Please post your reactions to the GT-3 when you get it.
03-29-2003, 04:14 PM
#37
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
951S is the main track car, but I'll definitely do some laps with the GT3. It'd be a crime not to, right?
03-29-2003, 04:25 PM
#38
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not every Porsche owner lives close to a racetrack or wishes to subject their pride and joy to an autox, but there's no excuse for not driving in a highly spirited fashion on a country back road at every opportunity or finding yourself on a racetrack even once during ownership.
What gets me are Porsches driven well below the posted limit on a clear canyon road. Who are these people?
What gets me are Porsches driven well below the posted limit on a clear canyon road. Who are these people?
03-29-2003, 08:02 PM
#39
Advanced
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland Or
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Mike, I ran the Viper a couple more times before deciding to subject my Z28 to the rigors of frequent track driving.
Yesterday was a BMW Club event at PIR (Portland) and last week was a Porsche Club event. I think there is another Porsche Club event on April 25th
There were about 80 cars overall at the BMW day and a considerable 'novice' group. We all had a fun and safe day with a ton of track time. The events in Portland usually run $100 which is a good deal as far as track time goes.
Jim
Yesterday was a BMW Club event at PIR (Portland) and last week was a Porsche Club event. I think there is another Porsche Club event on April 25th
There were about 80 cars overall at the BMW day and a considerable 'novice' group. We all had a fun and safe day with a ton of track time. The events in Portland usually run $100 which is a good deal as far as track time goes.
Jim
03-30-2003, 01:02 AM
#41
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Site Sponsor
![Todd Serota [TracQuest]'s Avatar](https://rennlist.com/forums/./customavatars/avatar1032_0.gif){kind=avatar}
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lots of great comments in this thread. In response to various of them:
To Doug in Texas: Others have asked me to run a TracQuest event in Texas, specifically TWS, but it's really hard to break into a new area. It costs a small fortune to put on a DE event, especially the way I do it (smaller, gourmet food, no sponsorship). At all of the East Coast venues I now frequent (Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta and Mid-Ohio), I lost money on my first event. In fact, I've only done Road Atlanta and Mid-Ohio once, so I'm still in the hole! People in the area say that they can get lots of people to attend, and they mean well, but it's real easy for people to say they will come, and it's quite another to get them to sign up.
To Mike In Chi: Excellent comments. My only caveat to the others on the board involves your suggestion about the PDE (Porsche Driving Experience), which was formerly at Road Atlanta but is now at the new Barber track in Birmingham, AL. I'm not denigrating the program, but it's very different than the kind of events we're discussing. The two primary differences are 1) no instructor is ever in the car with you; they stand in corners and watch you as you go by, and watch in their rear view mirrors as you follow in a group, which segways into 2) all lapping is done ducks in a row fashion, in groups 4 or 5 cars, with an instructor in front. Additionally, you only get to go for 2 hot laps with the instructors (a few of whom, like David Murry and Hurley Haywood, are definitely killer drivers) at the very end of the school.
To MetalSolid: No one likes driving canyons more than I do, so I have a lot of experience doing it, in addition to my track experience. I don't recommend that people push hard on canyon roads if they don't have significant track experience. Even at tracks that are known to be "unforgiving" like Infineon and Watkins Glen, there are a number of places where there's room for error, meaning you can spin and/or go off without hitting anything. On canyon roads, there's none. Add to that cars coming in the opposite direction, and driving hard in the canyons without being an experienced track driver is a recipe for disaster. If someone has time to spend driving canyons, then s/he has time to get to the track to learn how to drive his/her car at or near the limit.
Finally, speaking of time, the comments of a number of people in this thread about not having enough time to do 2-day DE events explains why I allow people to run one or both days at TracQuest events. It's a PITA for me administratively, but a lot of people need and take advantage of that option. The customer is always right!
I look forward to meeting some of you at the track!
To Doug in Texas: Others have asked me to run a TracQuest event in Texas, specifically TWS, but it's really hard to break into a new area. It costs a small fortune to put on a DE event, especially the way I do it (smaller, gourmet food, no sponsorship). At all of the East Coast venues I now frequent (Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta and Mid-Ohio), I lost money on my first event. In fact, I've only done Road Atlanta and Mid-Ohio once, so I'm still in the hole! People in the area say that they can get lots of people to attend, and they mean well, but it's real easy for people to say they will come, and it's quite another to get them to sign up.
To Mike In Chi: Excellent comments. My only caveat to the others on the board involves your suggestion about the PDE (Porsche Driving Experience), which was formerly at Road Atlanta but is now at the new Barber track in Birmingham, AL. I'm not denigrating the program, but it's very different than the kind of events we're discussing. The two primary differences are 1) no instructor is ever in the car with you; they stand in corners and watch you as you go by, and watch in their rear view mirrors as you follow in a group, which segways into 2) all lapping is done ducks in a row fashion, in groups 4 or 5 cars, with an instructor in front. Additionally, you only get to go for 2 hot laps with the instructors (a few of whom, like David Murry and Hurley Haywood, are definitely killer drivers) at the very end of the school.
To MetalSolid: No one likes driving canyons more than I do, so I have a lot of experience doing it, in addition to my track experience. I don't recommend that people push hard on canyon roads if they don't have significant track experience. Even at tracks that are known to be "unforgiving" like Infineon and Watkins Glen, there are a number of places where there's room for error, meaning you can spin and/or go off without hitting anything. On canyon roads, there's none. Add to that cars coming in the opposite direction, and driving hard in the canyons without being an experienced track driver is a recipe for disaster. If someone has time to spend driving canyons, then s/he has time to get to the track to learn how to drive his/her car at or near the limit.
Finally, speaking of time, the comments of a number of people in this thread about not having enough time to do 2-day DE events explains why I allow people to run one or both days at TracQuest events. It's a PITA for me administratively, but a lot of people need and take advantage of that option. The customer is always right!
I look forward to meeting some of you at the track!
03-30-2003, 07:26 AM
#42
Drifting
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Todd I hope you bring Traquest to TWS someday soon, it's a great track. The track is very popular with the Lone Star Region PCA for DE events, which always sell out well in advance. A lot of the guys who run TWS frequent the Rennlist and other boards, so I think it would be easy to get the word out and hopefully a good turnout. But it's like you said with so many things, easier to say than do.
03-30-2003, 12:29 PM
#43
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Jim
So which is more fun on the track, the V or the Z?
I've slid a Skippy Viper around a small "track". What a ball.
Also $100 is a great price for a track day.
Scott
Where do you run your "S"? (Nice yacht in the background)
Todd
Congratulations. I understand you run a great organization.
I know you do Mid-Ohio, a track I intend to race at. Tracquest would be a great way to learn it.
I know a lot of the people reading this thread could benefit from an organization like yours.
You do have a few inaccuracies about PDE, however.
Instructors do spend some time in the car with you. In the heel and toe portion, I had Hurley Haywood forcing me to single clutch i/o the double I was used to, which resulting in 4 or 5 very awkward turns. You're are correct that there is a lot of observation and ducks in a row exercizes. But I don't think that is a hindrance to learning. This is the same as many of the racing schools where you are in a formula car -- nowhere for the instructor to sit . The two newbies I did the school with found ducks-in-a-row very comfortable and non-intimidating, and an easy way to progress.
I found all the instructors at PDE (no affiliation btw) to be excellent, as well as the ones I've met at Skip Barber. I think that consistent quality is one of the advantages of a professional school. And at their prices, I'd expect it.
I do think anyone reading this would gain from any instructional track expereience be it Tracquest, PDE or any of the other options available.
My point in bringing up PDE, Todd, is that it's ideal for anyone on this board who is concerned about their cars being torn up or excessively worn on the track. The PDE cars handle it with ease, and what is unique is those 996 owners learn in their own type of car as well. I know of no other organization that provides you with a current MY 996 to learn high performance driving.
I'm sure after anyone with doubts about their 996 and the track completes a PDE 2-day, you'll have plenty of customers for further valuable instruction.
Just my dos centavos.
So which is more fun on the track, the V or the Z?
I've slid a Skippy Viper around a small "track". What a ball.
Also $100 is a great price for a track day.
Scott
Where do you run your "S"? (Nice yacht in the background)
Todd
Congratulations. I understand you run a great organization.
I know you do Mid-Ohio, a track I intend to race at. Tracquest would be a great way to learn it.
I know a lot of the people reading this thread could benefit from an organization like yours.
You do have a few inaccuracies about PDE, however.
Instructors do spend some time in the car with you. In the heel and toe portion, I had Hurley Haywood forcing me to single clutch i/o the double I was used to, which resulting in 4 or 5 very awkward turns. You're are correct that there is a lot of observation and ducks in a row exercizes. But I don't think that is a hindrance to learning. This is the same as many of the racing schools where you are in a formula car -- nowhere for the instructor to sit
. The two newbies I did the school with found ducks-in-a-row very comfortable and non-intimidating, and an easy way to progress.I found all the instructors at PDE (no affiliation btw) to be excellent, as well as the ones I've met at Skip Barber. I think that consistent quality is one of the advantages of a professional school. And at their prices, I'd expect it.
I do think anyone reading this would gain from any instructional track expereience be it Tracquest, PDE or any of the other options available.
My point in bringing up PDE, Todd, is that it's ideal for anyone on this board who is concerned about their cars being torn up or excessively worn on the track. The PDE cars handle it with ease, and what is unique is those 996 owners learn in their own type of car as well. I know of no other organization that provides you with a current MY 996 to learn high performance driving.
I'm sure after anyone with doubts about their 996 and the track completes a PDE 2-day, you'll have plenty of customers for further valuable instruction.
Just my dos centavos.
03-30-2003, 03:26 PM
#44
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Track days are fun and addicting. I started out as a watcher and ended up driving. I did find out one thing, don't have the dealer do your tech inspections for DE. I am getting my second transmission, through no fault of my own I would add, and I get to pay to have it put in. PCNA said they do not cover tracked cars. No matter how much or little you do. In this instance, PCNA not PAG is "gifting" the tranny so it will clearly not be under any sort of warranty. Seems like they are beginning the new era of SUV relationhsips with the customer. So fore warned and all that. But even through it all, the driving the climbing esses at VIR will give you a new perspective on life
03-30-2003, 03:45 PM
#45
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by STRSHP:
<strong>Seems like they are beginning the new era of SUV relationhsips with the customer. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hmmm... I wonder if PCNA void the warranty of Cayennes that have been out in the mud?
<strong>Seems like they are beginning the new era of SUV relationhsips with the customer. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hmmm... I wonder if PCNA void the warranty of Cayennes that have been out in the mud?