A really good article about the 911s dynamics. It goes into the large polar moment and long lever due to the rear engine. Really good read. I know most of you are Excellence readers so it might be worth picking up the 911 & Porsche World mag this month.

 

How to drive a 911 properly == 'DON'T LIFT OFF THE THROTTLE IN A TURN'
(unless you really want to see how well 'Please Save Me' a.k.a Porsche Stability Management, is working that day....)

Simple.

 

Especially in a C4, or C4S.

 

I would be curious to read that. Is it available online anywhere?

 

Step 1: Brake late.....later......LATER........................LATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Step 2: Lifting on sweepers = makeshift merrygoround.

 

I wonder if Coochas is going to put it on his website and save us a trip to Borders...?

 

above (never lift!) is what ive always constantly heard from forums, articles online, etc... however:

i went to the potomac pca auto-x beginners school. the instructors said "when the front end pushes, because it will, lift off the throttle and you'll regain traction, i.e. steering ability". i tested this to no end in the tight low-speed exercises and the course. not once was the back end able to step out at all. ever. lifting has only regained traction in the front and never lost in the rear, even with incredibly abrupt throttle adjustments.

this is all with a 99 c2, bone stock.

thoughts?

 

I say if your car is pushing you need a more aggressive alignment / suspension, everyone know s how bad these cars push stock...NEVER LIFT is the only rule of thumb for these cars or at least what i have found, just thinking about makes total sense.

 

mrhmmhmm - the "pushing" (understeer) is dialed in by the factory as a safety measure. While we'd all like our cars to be perfectly neutral, understeer is much more easily handled by a novice driver than oversteer. Typical auto-x speeds aren't usually high enough to allow good line changes via oversteer - so lifting helps take the load off the front, outside tire. Lifting in a high speed sweeper unloads the rear tires and the car will oversteer - not the snap 360 like the old 911's, but you can easily swap ends.

 

I read the article and wasn't impressed. There was some theory about polar moment but no real tips. Just some old stories about how Jurgen Barth got a 911 side ways and brought it back. The author tried to do the same but couldn't do it.

Fortunately, there were other articles in th mag that were worth reading (specal on RS models and story about rebuilding m96 engines).

 

The first vehicle that I ever had on a track was a motorcycle. Riding a bike on track the first rule of thumb is that you don't lift mid turn or else you'll crash (at least if you're near the limits of the machine).

In switching to cars after deciding that racing motorcycles was not for me (or at least my left shoulder) instructors at my first few events in the M3 actually had urge me to lift mid turn to set the front tires in an understeer situation and it was a tough transition for me to actually become less smooth to manipulate the car the way I wanted.

I've read that the older 911's were the same territory as a bike...with the no lift mentality...but I've riden in a few 996's on track and it seems as though they're much more tame and forgiving than most give them credit for.

I'm hoping my bike background makes the transition to driving a 996 on track a much smoother one...I'll find out soon I suppose.

Andy

 

The trick with a 996, like every other car, is to move your car's weight to where it's needed to optimize your trip through a corner. The no-lift idea is just a safeguard for beginners. If your car is pushing it needs more weight on the front tires. The best way to move weight to the front (while moving) is to feather the gas a little. BTW, since every corner is different there is no such thing as a neutral car. A properly set up track car will push a little in some corners and over-steer a little in others. If it feels neutral all the time then you’re going too slow!

If your car is over-steering you need to move weight back which is best accomplished by adding throttle. This is where lifting can be a real problem because is further reduces traction in the rear. Obviously this is worse in a 911/996 with the engine hanging off the back bumper.

Dead, I have to disagree on braking late. 996s seem to prefer longer, lighter braking zones. Try braking earlier and through your turn-in as a way of keeping the car more balanced and settled. This also allows you to turn in earlier because the car will rotate much better on the way to the apex. Just an idea that works for me.
Jim

 

Well said Jim. I have experimentited many times with diff braking zones and levels of braking pressure and have found that I can navigate much easier with method you have suggested as well as pick up time on the course!

 

If you happen to lift in a high-speed sweeper, how do you recover if the rear starts to get loose? I suppose getting on the throttle (to press the rear end) is the key, but I've heard differing opinions on how to do this quickly (too slow on the throttle= you will oversteer & crash, too fast & hard on the throttle = you will power oversteer & crash).
Then there's my race instructor, who says you should really come in to a turn slow and exit fast, regardless of what kind of turn it is. So braking hard & progressively and in as short a distance as possible before the turn (+ a little trailbraking) is what you really want. But then, how do you handle descending radius turns?
What do you guys think?
I haven't taken my car to a high speed track to find out yet, but any advice from you guys who've tracked your cars would be great!

 

Your race instructor, if you quoted him correctly, is wrong. Every turn is different. The goal is to enter as fast as you can without compromising your exit on corners that lead onto straights. If the turn is at the end of a straight and leads to another corner, you probably want to enter fast and compromise the exit. Slow in, fast out is the DE mantra and is meant to keep you safe.

Remember, there are no such thoughts as "always" and "never". There are exceptions.

As far as saving a car, there is a feel which gets developed with seat time. Unfortunately, there isn't much time to plan when the back end is coming around...