"Would I ever buy a 996?"
03-31-2002, 11:19 AM
#16
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Arthur: Yes, I know the dealer potentially could have sold the car right away, although I know for a fact that they were stuck with it for several weeks. I knew going in with the order that the deposit was non-refundable, because I had to sign a document stating such. Nonetheless, in the end, it was still the right decision for me. I truly would not have been as satisfied with the 996 as with the 993.
Jim Sloves: I agree with you. Deposits really should be required so as not to mess up dealer allocations. My situation was, I am sure, not the norm.
996operator et all:
I apologize if I offended anyone with my earlier post. I was indeed not trying to lecture anyone...only giving my honest opinion. Your initial post raised the question of why most 993 owners were turning down the 996 after test drives. By asking such a question, I assumed you had not owned a 993 previously. Again, my apology for offending you and anyone else.
Jim Sloves: I agree with you. Deposits really should be required so as not to mess up dealer allocations. My situation was, I am sure, not the norm.
996operator et all:
I apologize if I offended anyone with my earlier post. I was indeed not trying to lecture anyone...only giving my honest opinion. Your initial post raised the question of why most 993 owners were turning down the 996 after test drives. By asking such a question, I assumed you had not owned a 993 previously. Again, my apology for offending you and anyone else.
03-31-2002, 12:15 PM
#17
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Well I met Ferdinand Porsche shortly before he died, and he told me that the 993 was the last real Porsche. In fact he told me that Porsche were only building the 996 to give the designers something to do because they were getting bored. We also discussed the Cayenne project - this was only being built because he overheard a comment in a supermarket that there wasn't a Porsche you could take shopping. Hence the Cayenne.
03-31-2002, 02:55 PM
#18
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Let me look at this: Performancewise 996 is better so I presume its better trackwise and I heard people say 996 are gt cars-great cruisers on the road. You got the best of both worlds with the 996. Where does the 993 fit in? Regards. Mike
03-31-2002, 06:21 PM
#19
By my side i got the choice between a 993 C4S and a 996 C4 . I went for the 996 .I drove both of them several times and for me the 996 is personally the best choice by all the points of view.
And about the famous Porsche enthusiasts..just give me a break...(f.ex) My neighboor had a 993 a few months ago then he said at the time that there's nothing like the 993.. (he considered him self as a Porsche enthusiast), now he has a 996 dark grey targa...!
We are in the same family so why shoot each other??!
And about the famous Porsche enthusiasts..just give me a break...(f.ex) My neighboor had a 993 a few months ago then he said at the time that there's nothing like the 993.. (he considered him self as a Porsche enthusiast), now he has a 996 dark grey targa...!
We are in the same family so why shoot each other??!
03-31-2002, 10:44 PM
#20
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arguments regarding current great models vs past great models have always kept porsche enthusiats occupied and happy.
i was an active member of my local porsche club in the mid to late 70's. members were still arguing back then that the 356's were the only "real" porsches and all 911's were poseurs! now its 993 vs 996!
to me this is the bottom line:
you like what you are used to and all of these cars have many attractive features. for this reason porsches of every age evoke fierce loyalty. this is a testament to the design and build quality of most porshes thru the years.
to me the major benefit of a newer porsche is that maintenance and repairs are easier on the newer cars. as cars age they become less practical for daily use because their maintenance and repair requirements increase--this will also happen inevitably to the 993's as it did to the 356's.
regarding build quality i am encouraged that the 2002's are clearly more carefully finished, especially in the interiors, than the 1999 models. the c4s models with their standard full leather interiors are paticularly impressive in this regard. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
i was an active member of my local porsche club in the mid to late 70's. members were still arguing back then that the 356's were the only "real" porsches and all 911's were poseurs! now its 993 vs 996!
to me this is the bottom line:
you like what you are used to and all of these cars have many attractive features. for this reason porsches of every age evoke fierce loyalty. this is a testament to the design and build quality of most porshes thru the years.
to me the major benefit of a newer porsche is that maintenance and repairs are easier on the newer cars. as cars age they become less practical for daily use because their maintenance and repair requirements increase--this will also happen inevitably to the 993's as it did to the 356's.
regarding build quality i am encouraged that the 2002's are clearly more carefully finished, especially in the interiors, than the 1999 models. the c4s models with their standard full leather interiors are paticularly impressive in this regard. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
04-01-2002, 12:11 PM
#22
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I have to chime in here. I always wanted to buy a brand new 911 I waited until I finished my residency/fellowship training and bought a home. I loved the 993, but when I was "ready" Porsche simply didn't make them anymore ( actually they couldn't and keep up with emmission standards or side impact crash tests- similar problem that forced GMs hand to go ahead and build the C5 Corvette- that turned out pretty well too), so I ordered a new 996 built to my specs. I would do it again in a flash. The 993 is a great car but the newest 911 is a great car too! I get really tired of hearing stuff like the 911 has "lost its soul" or it sounds like a sewing machine. It is a little soft with the std suspension and , yes it's pretty quiet too. But,these are easily fixed... I added RoW M030 and a sport exhaust( I use Ruf, but there are many good choices). Now the car drives sounds and feels as viceral as any 911. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
04-01-2002, 12:49 PM
#23
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One interesting point that these sorts of discussions throws up:
A lot of our opinions are made on the basis of a single test drive, or perhaps two or three test drives in the same demonstrator. (In fact a lot of people end up buying new cars without even test driving them, because of waiting lists etc)
The thought occurred to me that it would be very easy to get put off by a test drive on a car that had incorrect tyre pressures, or was lacking in power for some reason, or there could be something a little out of whack with the gearchange - unless you drove cars like that every day you wouldn't know, and it could put you off a particular model (or a whole make of car) for ever.
Another example of this would be things like sports exhausts and aftermarket suspension kits, shocks, springs etc etc. You could completely transform a car's personality with these things - but unless you were lucky enough to know someone with those modifications, how would you ever know what you could achieve??
I guess the best you can get is to have a good relationship with someone that sells a wide range of cars, and test drive a lot of them... although this still wouldn't tell you what was available with aftermarket products....
A lot of our opinions are made on the basis of a single test drive, or perhaps two or three test drives in the same demonstrator. (In fact a lot of people end up buying new cars without even test driving them, because of waiting lists etc)
The thought occurred to me that it would be very easy to get put off by a test drive on a car that had incorrect tyre pressures, or was lacking in power for some reason, or there could be something a little out of whack with the gearchange - unless you drove cars like that every day you wouldn't know, and it could put you off a particular model (or a whole make of car) for ever.
Another example of this would be things like sports exhausts and aftermarket suspension kits, shocks, springs etc etc. You could completely transform a car's personality with these things - but unless you were lucky enough to know someone with those modifications, how would you ever know what you could achieve??
I guess the best you can get is to have a good relationship with someone that sells a wide range of cars, and test drive a lot of them... although this still wouldn't tell you what was available with aftermarket products....
04-01-2002, 01:59 PM
#24
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As I recently posted my impressions of a test-drive of a 2002 996 let me post here some of the compliments I gave the 996
1) "The tiptronic on the 996 is a definite improvement as it has 5 gears versus 4 for the 993."
2) "There is no lugging of the engine when starting in second like there is on the 993."
3) "Plus it has an extra 40 hp over my current car."
4) "The interior was a definite improvement in luxury."
I also stated that "Maybe the 996 would grow on me in time..."
Gee, really sounds like I'm FLAMING the 996 now doesn't it?
I stand by my PERSONAL opinion that "There wasn't that raw feel, the feeling throughout your body as the engine revs, or that instantenous feedback from the steering wheel that the 993 has.".
If you can't take a post that outlines a personal opinion on the pros and cons of two generations of the 911 then maybe you shouldn't be on this board.
A couple of months ago there was a big flame war over Porsche versus Corvette and why buy a Porsche when you can get better performance out of a Corvette. It didn't **** me off. I took all the useful opinions, ignored the useless ranting posts, agreed that a Corvette had more power and decided I still loved my car for a variety of reasons.
1) "The tiptronic on the 996 is a definite improvement as it has 5 gears versus 4 for the 993."
2) "There is no lugging of the engine when starting in second like there is on the 993."
3) "Plus it has an extra 40 hp over my current car."
4) "The interior was a definite improvement in luxury."
I also stated that "Maybe the 996 would grow on me in time..."
Gee, really sounds like I'm FLAMING the 996 now doesn't it?
I stand by my PERSONAL opinion that "There wasn't that raw feel, the feeling throughout your body as the engine revs, or that instantenous feedback from the steering wheel that the 993 has.".
If you can't take a post that outlines a personal opinion on the pros and cons of two generations of the 911 then maybe you shouldn't be on this board.
A couple of months ago there was a big flame war over Porsche versus Corvette and why buy a Porsche when you can get better performance out of a Corvette. It didn't **** me off. I took all the useful opinions, ignored the useless ranting posts, agreed that a Corvette had more power and decided I still loved my car for a variety of reasons.
04-01-2002, 02:00 PM
#25
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Hello all,
greg1234 says:
One interesting point that these sorts of discussions throws up:
A lot of our opinions are made on the basis of a single test drive, or perhaps two or three test drives in the same demonstrator. (In fact a lot of people end up buying new cars without even test driving them, because of waiting lists etc)
I agree wholeheartedly....
Just my .02 cents:
I am a Porsche salesman at the local dealership. I have driven countless 996's and lots of 993's. I do honestly believe that opinions of these two cars are based upon what car you are comming from. If you had a 914 for 12 years, then you probabbly want a 993. If you are comming from a Mercedes or say a 928, like me, then the 996 makes you feel at home. Like Porsche AG, the company, says...Evoloution...and....Everything we know so far...Both are great cars. But the good thing is we have a choice. I like what I like, you like what you like. Lets like all Porsches and concentrate our dislike on the Corvette.
greg1234 says:
One interesting point that these sorts of discussions throws up:
A lot of our opinions are made on the basis of a single test drive, or perhaps two or three test drives in the same demonstrator. (In fact a lot of people end up buying new cars without even test driving them, because of waiting lists etc)
I agree wholeheartedly....
Just my .02 cents:
I am a Porsche salesman at the local dealership. I have driven countless 996's and lots of 993's. I do honestly believe that opinions of these two cars are based upon what car you are comming from. If you had a 914 for 12 years, then you probabbly want a 993. If you are comming from a Mercedes or say a 928, like me, then the 996 makes you feel at home. Like Porsche AG, the company, says...Evoloution...and....Everything we know so far...Both are great cars. But the good thing is we have a choice. I like what I like, you like what you like. Lets like all Porsches and concentrate our dislike on the Corvette.
04-01-2002, 03:48 PM
#26
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Funny you say that John.
I have a Mercedes and and the reason I chose the 993 is because it so different.
When I tested the boxster, boxster s and 996, I felt that the ride and comfort were just like the Merc but with an incredible amount of power.
In my case, the power was a lower priority
Regards
I have a Mercedes and and the reason I chose the 993 is because it so different.
When I tested the boxster, boxster s and 996, I felt that the ride and comfort were just like the Merc but with an incredible amount of power.
In my case, the power was a lower priority
Regards
04-01-2002, 03:51 PM
#27
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John, Alex & Greg have hit on something we should all strive for (no, not throwing rocks at Vettes...). It is great to hold & express strongly held opinions. It is good manners to express them as such... beliefs, personal analysis... not as immutable facts.
It is questionable to jump from personal knowledge (or belief) to normative judgement. We don't all have the same experiences or values, and those have at least as great an influence on our perceptions & conclusions as the "facts" do. Stay away from "I believe x, therefore x is a fact, and everyone must also believe x.". Or, "I believe x, therefore you are stupid (or evil) if you don't also believe x." Let's not forget the lessons in Animal Farm. Among the worst thread dialog I read runs along these lines, "The reason you are wrong is because I am right". Also, any ad hominum attacks reflect only on the character of the person making them, "you are so dim-witted of course you can't understand the brilliance within my previous post".
So, I don't think singing kumbaiya together is the goal here, but thoughtful, civil expression allows us to agree & disagree, even very strongly, while yet "learning & living" another day.
It is questionable to jump from personal knowledge (or belief) to normative judgement. We don't all have the same experiences or values, and those have at least as great an influence on our perceptions & conclusions as the "facts" do. Stay away from "I believe x, therefore x is a fact, and everyone must also believe x.". Or, "I believe x, therefore you are stupid (or evil) if you don't also believe x." Let's not forget the lessons in Animal Farm. Among the worst thread dialog I read runs along these lines, "The reason you are wrong is because I am right". Also, any ad hominum attacks reflect only on the character of the person making them, "you are so dim-witted of course you can't understand the brilliance within my previous post".
So, I don't think singing kumbaiya together is the goal here, but thoughtful, civil expression allows us to agree & disagree, even very strongly, while yet "learning & living" another day.
04-01-2002, 04:45 PM
#28
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Why is the latest 911 Turbo, GT2 and now defunct GT3 running gear based on the older 993/964 crankcase and gearbox, not the latest 996 hardware? It's because the quality of the basic 996 engine and transmission has been reduced in favor of cost and profit and can't support performance increases. When Porsche needs real hardware they go back to the past. That's what keeps us older Porsche freaks alive and against the new stuff.
04-01-2002, 05:42 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
One thing needs to be corrected, in the interest of accuracy. DJ 996 stated that the 993 was unable to meet the latest side-impact standards. I am fairly certain that this is untrue -- the 993 can meet the current side impact standards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the last change to side impact standards came about for the '97 model year -- nothing has changed (yet) since then. ALL 993s meet the '97 standards, while the 964s do not. Several cars were unable to be brought up to the '97 rules, including the C4 Corvette and the 300ZX.
04-01-2002, 06:56 PM
#30
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Todd,
I heard about the "old" style door being unable to pass side impact standards without major changes three years ago when I bought my 996, granted the info was from the dealer so take it for what its worth. Sounds plausable to me but I could be wrong. For the record I like the looks and style of the 993 door, as well as the rest of the car, but I like my 996 better. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Doug
I heard about the "old" style door being unable to pass side impact standards without major changes three years ago when I bought my 996, granted the info was from the dealer so take it for what its worth. Sounds plausable to me but I could be wrong. For the record I like the looks and style of the 993 door, as well as the rest of the car, but I like my 996 better. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Doug