996 Engine Swap
06-28-2002, 11:26 AM
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996 Engine Swap
Has anyone swapped a 3.6 Supercup engine in place of a 3.4 engine in a 1999 996 U.S. spec car? I am considering this swap so any info would be greatly appreciated.
06-28-2002, 12:01 PM
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Hi Craig -
I saw your post...it's of interest to me as I am selling one of my 3.6 GT3 Supercup engines (<a href="http://mall.rennlist.com/scripts/featured/ads.cgi?db=race&website=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&re sults_format=long&db_id=73&query=retrieval" target="_blank">link to my ad</a>).... My understanding is that Technodyne in Arizona (Phoenix?) have done a number of these "conversions" -- you may want to contact them.
- Nick
I saw your post...it's of interest to me as I am selling one of my 3.6 GT3 Supercup engines (<a href="http://mall.rennlist.com/scripts/featured/ads.cgi?db=race&website=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&re sults_format=long&db_id=73&query=retrieval" target="_blank">link to my ad</a>).... My understanding is that Technodyne in Arizona (Phoenix?) have done a number of these "conversions" -- you may want to contact them.
- Nick
06-28-2002, 09:54 PM
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I don't know everything that is required but I do know that you need to also have a GT3 transmission to use the GT3 engine in a 996. There are lots of other minor things like adding a third radiator, different power steering pump, different wiring harness, no PSM or traction control, different Motronic unit, etc.
When you're done, you'll only be able to drive the car on a track, since the SuperCup engine has never been EPA certified in the US. You also need to have the engine rebuilt after a certain number of hours of use (PAG says 50 race hours but if you are just running in DEs you could probably get away with more). The rebuild will probably run you $20-30K each time, so you'd better put some money away for that.
Quite frankly, if you want a track car, you're probably better off selling your 996 and buying a used SuperCup car. It will cost you less in the end than trying to do a conversion and you'll get all the other trick stuff like air jacks, fire system, center lock hubs, etc.
When you're done, you'll only be able to drive the car on a track, since the SuperCup engine has never been EPA certified in the US. You also need to have the engine rebuilt after a certain number of hours of use (PAG says 50 race hours but if you are just running in DEs you could probably get away with more). The rebuild will probably run you $20-30K each time, so you'd better put some money away for that.
Quite frankly, if you want a track car, you're probably better off selling your 996 and buying a used SuperCup car. It will cost you less in the end than trying to do a conversion and you'll get all the other trick stuff like air jacks, fire system, center lock hubs, etc.
06-29-2002, 05:46 AM
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If you are trying to do a GT3 engine swap, I would recommend staying with the street engine unless you plan on tracking the car.
I have been working on a GT3 conversion project for some time now and I have some info for those that are interested. One of the first things I'd like to point out is that it's not a simple engine swap. You need either a GT3 tranny or a 993 tranny. There are lots of other little things that you need to or should get including the DME, harness, misc hoses, new motor mounts, third middle radiator, shift linkage.
Here are some prices:
New GT3 engine w/DME, harness, etc. - $38-40k
993 tranny w/LSD - $4k
GT3 tranny - ? not sure but remember being quoted $10-14k
Misc parts - about $3-5k
Labor for all this madness - about $5k
If you go with a 993 tranny and shop around you can probably get the installation down just below $50k. You really have to start evaluating whether it's worth it to you, because by the time you finish the conversion, you could have made a very fast 996 turbo. Personally, I'm not a big fan of turbos and I had a chance to drive a GT3, so I'm hooked.
Although I was planning on buying the engine new and using a 993 tranny, I managed to find a salvaged GT3 from Europe for a very good price. The motor, tranny, electronics, interior, suspension, brakes, etc. were all in good shape and it's been completely disassembled and is being air-freighted (minus the chassis) here to Los Angeles as I write this.
It'll be another 4-6 weeks before the conversion is complete. I'll be posting a message with more information about the conversion at some point in the future.
I have been working on a GT3 conversion project for some time now and I have some info for those that are interested. One of the first things I'd like to point out is that it's not a simple engine swap. You need either a GT3 tranny or a 993 tranny. There are lots of other little things that you need to or should get including the DME, harness, misc hoses, new motor mounts, third middle radiator, shift linkage.
Here are some prices:
New GT3 engine w/DME, harness, etc. - $38-40k
993 tranny w/LSD - $4k
GT3 tranny - ? not sure but remember being quoted $10-14k
Misc parts - about $3-5k
Labor for all this madness - about $5k
If you go with a 993 tranny and shop around you can probably get the installation down just below $50k. You really have to start evaluating whether it's worth it to you, because by the time you finish the conversion, you could have made a very fast 996 turbo. Personally, I'm not a big fan of turbos and I had a chance to drive a GT3, so I'm hooked.
Although I was planning on buying the engine new and using a 993 tranny, I managed to find a salvaged GT3 from Europe for a very good price. The motor, tranny, electronics, interior, suspension, brakes, etc. were all in good shape and it's been completely disassembled and is being air-freighted (minus the chassis) here to Los Angeles as I write this.
It'll be another 4-6 weeks before the conversion is complete. I'll be posting a message with more information about the conversion at some point in the future.
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06-30-2002, 03:18 AM
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kyopo,
Considering the expense involved and the fact that when you're done with the swap you have a track only car, don't you think buying a used 996 Cup car for around $100K is a better deal?
Karl
Considering the expense involved and the fact that when you're done with the swap you have a track only car, don't you think buying a used 996 Cup car for around $100K is a better deal?
Karl
06-30-2002, 10:21 AM
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Your points about value vs. utility are well taken Karl.... Albeit illegal, my understanding is that not all of the converted 996/GT3 cup combination cars end up 100% on the track.... 
- Nick
- Nick
06-30-2002, 03:22 PM
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Karl,
If I wanted a track-only car, of course I would have just bought a cup car. Don't worry, once I'm done with the swap the car *will* be driven on the street. :^)
If I wanted a track-only car, of course I would have just bought a cup car. Don't worry, once I'm done with the swap the car *will* be driven on the street. :^)
06-30-2002, 04:49 PM
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I appreciate all of the info posted thus far. The idea is to drive it on the track & the street so a cup car is not the answer for me. I already own a '01 twin turbo so what I am really looking for is a lightweight high powered rear drive burner.
06-30-2002, 08:39 PM
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Craig,
If you are going to drive the car on the street, I think you want to try and find a new/used GT3 engine. Although not EPA certified in the US, I think you'll have a better chance of getting through an emissions test with this engine, since they are designed to be emissions legal in Europe. You also won't need to pull it out for a rebuild after every 50-100 hours.
The SuperCup engines are race engines built to very tight tolerances and I think the headaches around emissions and rebuilding would quickly negate any performance benefit for street use.
Karl
If you are going to drive the car on the street, I think you want to try and find a new/used GT3 engine. Although not EPA certified in the US, I think you'll have a better chance of getting through an emissions test with this engine, since they are designed to be emissions legal in Europe. You also won't need to pull it out for a rebuild after every 50-100 hours.
The SuperCup engines are race engines built to very tight tolerances and I think the headaches around emissions and rebuilding would quickly negate any performance benefit for street use.
Karl
07-20-2002, 04:58 AM
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Craig,
The engine swap is going. The GT3 engine, tranny and parts from a salvaged GT3 all landed and got through customs two weeks ago. We had some trouble getting it on an air flight before July 4 for obvious reasons.
I dropped my car off today and the work has started. The tranny is being taken apart as I'm putting in a new R&P and gears, plus one of the shifter arms broke in transit so we needed to take it apart anyways. The tranny looks identical to the 996TT/GT2 tranny which makes sense since they all use the same motor. The stock R&P is 3.44 and the gearing is a little too tall for my tastes, since I'm never going to go 200MPH. I'm going with a 4.0 R&P and some shorter, close-ratio gears, although I made 1st gear a little taller. I'm making my stock 5th gear as the new 6th gear so my max speed will be about 155MPH.
The brakes, suspension, saftey equipment, seats, wheels have already been installed. The aerokit is done and I've gone ahead and done a bunch of the small details including the gauges, handbrake, door sills, etc.. I'm also removing the sunroof on my car and replacing the rear bumper with a Euro-spec bumper (meaning no bumperettes). And I'll be polishing it all off with an '02 facelift and bi-xenons.
After going through all the parts, we noticed some other minor details that are different between the regular 996 and the GT3 such as the glass panes for all the windows on the GT3 having serial numbers and the rear window has PORSCHE spelled out in black along the bottom. I'm going to try taking some digital pictures so I can document this project a little more than I have been doing.
Anyways, I'm hoping in 2-3 months all the work will be finished and I'll be driving a (sort of) street-legal GT3.
The engine swap is going. The GT3 engine, tranny and parts from a salvaged GT3 all landed and got through customs two weeks ago. We had some trouble getting it on an air flight before July 4 for obvious reasons.
I dropped my car off today and the work has started. The tranny is being taken apart as I'm putting in a new R&P and gears, plus one of the shifter arms broke in transit so we needed to take it apart anyways. The tranny looks identical to the 996TT/GT2 tranny which makes sense since they all use the same motor. The stock R&P is 3.44 and the gearing is a little too tall for my tastes, since I'm never going to go 200MPH. I'm going with a 4.0 R&P and some shorter, close-ratio gears, although I made 1st gear a little taller. I'm making my stock 5th gear as the new 6th gear so my max speed will be about 155MPH.
The brakes, suspension, saftey equipment, seats, wheels have already been installed. The aerokit is done and I've gone ahead and done a bunch of the small details including the gauges, handbrake, door sills, etc.. I'm also removing the sunroof on my car and replacing the rear bumper with a Euro-spec bumper (meaning no bumperettes). And I'll be polishing it all off with an '02 facelift and bi-xenons.
After going through all the parts, we noticed some other minor details that are different between the regular 996 and the GT3 such as the glass panes for all the windows on the GT3 having serial numbers and the rear window has PORSCHE spelled out in black along the bottom. I'm going to try taking some digital pictures so I can document this project a little more than I have been doing.
Anyways, I'm hoping in 2-3 months all the work will be finished and I'll be driving a (sort of) street-legal GT3.