Oil pressure at track
#31
Originally Posted by bgiere
as a follow up i will post some used oil analysis on 911's running xw40 oils ASAP and i think will agree they are pretty darn stout oils. BTW, the M1 15w50 is on the "low" end of a 50wt oil anyways, it is the "15" rating that will screw up the tappets every morning when you start it. not challenging, just tryin' to help!
#32
This is fun, but I think we are getting further and further away from the topic, into an area of nebulous opinions that are well intended, well thought, possibly right/wrong, but ultimately do not answer the question raised in the thread.
Does Penguinking have a problem or not? I think he does. His pressure is too low at the track. What is the solution? I think the 3.4L oil upgrade kit if still available, though it is pretty expensive and entails shipping one of the heads. Not sure the BK deep sump will work. Since 1999Porsche911's much beloved 15W50 seems to be in the OK list, should be OK to try to see if it works. Betcha it won't, heh-heh .
Does Penguinking have a problem or not? I think he does. His pressure is too low at the track. What is the solution? I think the 3.4L oil upgrade kit if still available, though it is pretty expensive and entails shipping one of the heads. Not sure the BK deep sump will work. Since 1999Porsche911's much beloved 15W50 seems to be in the OK list, should be OK to try to see if it works. Betcha it won't, heh-heh .
#34
https://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={D628EF12-276A-48C7-BAE1-4BC29E8F7398}
i feel better now...he's wrong too! hey man, just tryin to help and learn something myself!
i feel better now...he's wrong too! hey man, just tryin to help and learn something myself!
#35
Originally Posted by Palting
This is fun, but I think we are getting further and further away from the topic, into an area of nebulous opinions that are well intended, well thought, possibly right/wrong, but ultimately do not answer the question raised in the thread.
Does Penguinking have a problem or not? I think he does. His pressure is too low at the track. What is the solution? I think the 3.4L oil upgrade kit if still available, though it is pretty expensive and entails shipping one of the heads. Not sure the BK deep sump will work. Since 1999Porsche911's much beloved 15W50 seems to be in the OK list, should be OK to try to see if it works. Betcha it won't, heh-heh .
Does Penguinking have a problem or not? I think he does. His pressure is too low at the track. What is the solution? I think the 3.4L oil upgrade kit if still available, though it is pretty expensive and entails shipping one of the heads. Not sure the BK deep sump will work. Since 1999Porsche911's much beloved 15W50 seems to be in the OK list, should be OK to try to see if it works. Betcha it won't, heh-heh .
#37
Originally Posted by bgiere
https://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={D628EF12-276A-48C7-BAE1-4BC29E8F7398}
i feel better now...he's wrong too! hey man, just tryin to help and learn something myself!
i feel better now...he's wrong too! hey man, just tryin to help and learn something myself!
#39
https://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={4F59AC7A-4887-4BB0-9F0D-749DDC0F8634}
sorry it won't hyperlink...anyways, this issue has been dicussed for awhile, started right after the M96 engines came out...Porsche must've seen a circumstance where there can be enough cornering force to briefly interrupt oil supply but i have not heard of anyone actually experiencing it. Most of the engine problems we see have been because the owner used the wrong oil viscosity...i will not say which viscosity they used for fear of insulting the omniscient. it is safe to say the oil was just too viscous...i have a guess...i think the oil pressure gauges and sending units in the new cars are very "quick" to register changes...combine that with a slight throttle lift and you will see a gauge move in a corner maybe?? just a hunch...lately there have been many,many drivers with the water cooled engines at the track, both PCA and NASA and they have been holding up well! Good luck to you and i hope this sheds some light.
sorry it won't hyperlink...anyways, this issue has been dicussed for awhile, started right after the M96 engines came out...Porsche must've seen a circumstance where there can be enough cornering force to briefly interrupt oil supply but i have not heard of anyone actually experiencing it. Most of the engine problems we see have been because the owner used the wrong oil viscosity...i will not say which viscosity they used for fear of insulting the omniscient. it is safe to say the oil was just too viscous...i have a guess...i think the oil pressure gauges and sending units in the new cars are very "quick" to register changes...combine that with a slight throttle lift and you will see a gauge move in a corner maybe?? just a hunch...lately there have been many,many drivers with the water cooled engines at the track, both PCA and NASA and they have been holding up well! Good luck to you and i hope this sheds some light.
#40
one last thing. i posted a viscosity question to a tribologist (oil guru) regarding another issue i was working on...FYI, here is his opinion. I realize it was for air-cooled app's but interesting none the less:
"A thicker oil will not transfer heat as well as a thinner oil and it will increase "intrafluid" friction.
Think of all the energy that's required to stir a glass of honey, vs one of water. The first law of thermodynamics says that energy can not be lost or gained in a closed system, only converted. The extra energy need to pump and shear (deform) a thicker lubricant therefore goes directly into heating the fluid and the engine surrounding it.
I'd be most concerned about the effect of thermal expansion in an air cooled engine and having the Al pistons bind in the cylinders, as well as very high seal/gasket temps (they'll age faster at higher temps). A 5w-40 or 10w-40 will reduce your peak oil temps by 10F-20F and the car will put out noticably more power. Oil pressure (which determines bearing protection) and oil film thickness (which determines valve train wear) will really not be that much different with the 5w-40 or 10w-40, since the oil is running cooler.
If you have access to Redline, I'd also consider their new 5w-40 synthetic...it's a very shear stable formulation and should work well here. Call Dave at Redline and pick his brain about this for 10-15 minutes - I think he'll confirm what I'm saying."
sincerely,
Ted Kublin
www.lubedealer.com/Dixie_Synthetics
MSME, Georgia Tech, class of '81
"A thicker oil will not transfer heat as well as a thinner oil and it will increase "intrafluid" friction.
Think of all the energy that's required to stir a glass of honey, vs one of water. The first law of thermodynamics says that energy can not be lost or gained in a closed system, only converted. The extra energy need to pump and shear (deform) a thicker lubricant therefore goes directly into heating the fluid and the engine surrounding it.
I'd be most concerned about the effect of thermal expansion in an air cooled engine and having the Al pistons bind in the cylinders, as well as very high seal/gasket temps (they'll age faster at higher temps). A 5w-40 or 10w-40 will reduce your peak oil temps by 10F-20F and the car will put out noticably more power. Oil pressure (which determines bearing protection) and oil film thickness (which determines valve train wear) will really not be that much different with the 5w-40 or 10w-40, since the oil is running cooler.
If you have access to Redline, I'd also consider their new 5w-40 synthetic...it's a very shear stable formulation and should work well here. Call Dave at Redline and pick his brain about this for 10-15 minutes - I think he'll confirm what I'm saying."
sincerely,
Ted Kublin
www.lubedealer.com/Dixie_Synthetics
MSME, Georgia Tech, class of '81
#42
had a discussion with an anonymous source who does oil testing for a major oil company...he said that the 996 cups in Australia run Fuchs Silkolene 0w20 with no apparent wear. now, keep in mind the engines are rebuilt after 25-40 hours...but the results would astound you he said. anyways here is a blurb on 996's with a little talk about what the cup 996 is running at that time.
https://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={EB7C9701-A45B-4B4A-AA5D-64D8B22E76EA}
https://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={EB7C9701-A45B-4B4A-AA5D-64D8B22E76EA}
#45
yeah the 0w20 would make even me nervous i must say...but, supposedly it has a film strength and HTHS number that is better than alot of 50 wts.....so i am told. i ran some 5w20 Redline in my old car...it was absolutely fine. sure did rev nice!