Tool Pants

The terms rebuilt and remanufactured are terms of art.

I take it as internet BS or from someone who went on a factory tour, the claim that rebuilt/remanufactured engine did not come out of a car as a used engine. Maybe 9 years ago when there were no core engines to be sent back to be rebuilt?

That is why Porsche charges X for an engine and more than X if you do not have a rebuildable core. Your core, if it is rebuildable, is then send back to Germany for what purpose?

When I started out 7 years ago on the internet it was said that cores were sent back to Germany so the engineers could figure out why the motor failed, and improve the breed. I hope Porsche has it figure out by now. I think that old story is just that. The failed engines are now needed to feed the supply chain of engines that are not new and have been in service.

I am not up on Bob's engines. But if he had a rebuildable core it might just be in your car as a rebuilt/remanufactured engine.

pl

just fyi, the core of bob's 2nd blowed engine was returned to PCNA.

fast1

When you guys refer to "core" are you referring to the "block." Unless the engine blew apart, I'd see no problem reusing the old block. I would expect all new moving parts in a rebuilt engine: pistons, valves, camshafts, etc.

Fred2

I am not sure if this assumption is entirely correct.
I am sure that crankshaft would be re used, or ground to bring it back into spec, as well as the rods and cams.

It would be real interesting to hear why these engines fail.
If it is as simple as something as a blown head gasket, alot of the original motor could be re-used.

nycebo

Shy of a cylinder sleeve cracking or the engine blowing apart, why would anyone need another motor just to fix a leaky RMS?

Since you know and trust your current engine, just get a new RMS (from what I hear, they are actually on a 4th generation fix already) and make sure that it's "placed 5mm farther into crankcase, uses a new intermediate shaft cap/crankshaft sealing ring with double bond, four new sealant-coated crankcase bolts, and three new intermediate shaft flange bolts." For the record, that's what I read somewhere on the net (maybe over at Renntech).

Good luck!

Kolbjorn S

I asked the dealer where I live, no engines have ever been replaced here only seals (if I understood correctly, quite a number of times on a few cars). If it was my car I would opt for replacement RMS rather than new engine, what's the guarantee the "new" one won't fail as well.

JasonAndreas

Because the real problem has always been with the engine and not the seal. Its only taken PAG 7 years to (finally? hopefully? maybe?) engineer a seal that would overcome these "design" problems...

2fas4u

ouch! that's cold what you said about bob's hey bob where are you hope the engine works out for ya
this has got to be draining

Palting

Here's a flip side. Whatever a re-manufactured engine is, it will replace an engine that will probably have 45K+ miles on it by that time. It will be new, better than an overhauled engine. No? Yes?

cdaniels

What is the cost for a "remanufactured 3.6 engine"? I imagine they want your core returned....

JasonAndreas

Pricing for remanufactured longblocks from Porsche (prices are in US dollars and do not include core charges -- I don't know those figures).

986 - $6963.57
996 - $7951.74
997 - $8561.44
993 - $18196.14
996TT - $20741.10 (short block) <=- Longblock will cost a bunch more.
GT3 - $26531.50
CGT - $79872.79

For the 993/964 engines the prices have more than doubled since 2003 (was $7800USD).

jury_ca

I work in manufacturing and have experience using the same production system that Porsche uses (TPS).

Reworked - A new engine that needs to go to a special rework area to correct defects made the first time through the mfg process.

Remanufactured - A used engine that goes through a remanufacturing process that uses partially new components and partially old components.

These are conjectures on my part but will most likely be what Porsche is doing:

1) Regarding warranty replacement engines being reworked engines: They might have a specific policy that states that engines that need to be reworked because they didn't get past the quality test the first time do not go into new cars. However, once a motor is reworked, and then "meets the spec" there is no engineering/quality reason for it not going into new cars.

2) It is unlikely that there are enough reworked engines in order to meet replacement demand for blown engines. This is where the remanufactured engine supply chain comes in. Remfg is about cost recovery and can save Porsche millions of $ in reusing parts rather than having to pay for new raw material and labour for a new engine.

3) Remanufactured engines - Blown engines where the core is still usable are sent to the remanufacturing facility, which is probably not even in the same engine production facility as the original engine. If Porsche was smart they'd be remanufactured in the US rather than sending them back to Germany. (no point paying shipping charges across the ocean twice, sorting engines for different country specs and paying high German labour wages). The engines will go into a check-in area where they are torn down to determine the root cause of the failure and stuff like how many engine-hrs are logged in the engine. This data goes to their quality department to improve the product and will also determine if the engine can be remanufactured or will be scrapped.

4) Remanufactured engines go through a standardized process dictating what parts need to be replaced with new parts (probably pistons, rings, seals, cams etc) and parts that do not wear and can be reused. The engines then run through a series of quality tests to ensure they meet the spec and then are resold as remanufactured engines, with a warranty.

The math is the fun part because usually : Replacement Demand > Rework engines + Remanufactured engines. Therefore, a % of people who need a replacement engine will get a brand new engine, when they run out of remfg engines Not sure who you'll have to suck up to, but that means that it is technically feasible to get a brand new engine as a warranty replacement.

As the previous poster mentioned, the reason that 'obsolete' engines like 964 and 993 engines have started to creep up in price is because once the production process for new 993 engines has ceased, they need to be manufactured in smaller batches only to meet replacement demand. Smaller batch size mfg has higher set-up cost per unit (eg. changing tools and dies in machinery that might be making 997 engine parts back to 993 parts).

fast1

jury_ca - Your view seems very plausible to me and it could account for the mixed results I've seen with replaced engines. I almost bought an '02 996 vert with a replaced engine. The salesman even toutted the fact that the car had a brand new engine, but he had to recant his story after we both talked to the Service Manager. After a ten minute test drive, it quickly became apparent to me that the car had problems. The car felt significantly underpowered, not sure why, and the manual shifter felt really sloppy. Needless to say I didn't buy the car.

jury_ca

Palting,

My preference would be: new engine > reworked engine (if they actually tell you this) > remanufactured engine >> your engine with 45K on it

pl

to porsche. reworked engine = new engine
they put it in their new car and nobody knows.