Cabriolet Subwoofer Audio Help...
02-19-2002, 11:15 PM
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Cabriolet Subwoofer Audio Help...
Hey guys,
I have a 99 Siver C2 Cabriolet w/ hardtop
I am really bummed about my audio situation.
I have already replaced the crappy CDR-220 with an MP3 unit(JVC KD-SH99), and have installed a 5 channel Alpine amp in the trunk.
Where can I put a sub??? I know the coupe guys have the PERFECT spot behind the rear seats. But, as you know I don't have that option. I hate to just cram a couple of 8" subs on the floor behind the front seats. I also hate to pull the door panels of and alter the speaker housings in the doors. I would just simply like to add a sub or two to give my music some body and depth. Any ideas? Thanks all for your input.
BTW I saw a twin turbo kit for our 996's in GT POWER magazine that increases HP to 460. I don't know if that requires an engine swap though. Wouldn't be great just to have a modest 6 lb boost. They have superchargers for the boxster, where's one for ours? I prefer superchargers.
Regards,
Justin
I have a 99 Siver C2 Cabriolet w/ hardtop
I am really bummed about my audio situation.
I have already replaced the crappy CDR-220 with an MP3 unit(JVC KD-SH99), and have installed a 5 channel Alpine amp in the trunk.
Where can I put a sub??? I know the coupe guys have the PERFECT spot behind the rear seats. But, as you know I don't have that option. I hate to just cram a couple of 8" subs on the floor behind the front seats. I also hate to pull the door panels of and alter the speaker housings in the doors. I would just simply like to add a sub or two to give my music some body and depth. Any ideas? Thanks all for your input.
BTW I saw a twin turbo kit for our 996's in GT POWER magazine that increases HP to 460. I don't know if that requires an engine swap though. Wouldn't be great just to have a modest 6 lb boost. They have superchargers for the boxster, where's one for ours? I prefer superchargers.
Regards,
Justin
02-20-2002, 01:41 AM
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I have noted many enthusiasts trying to have their cake & eat it too in re: Porsches & hi-end audio. I am not currently in the car audio biz, but for a number of years I observed & participated in high end car audio as a professional in the design of very high end monitors for the lunatic fringe home & studio market. Allow me to belabor the obvious, to wit: "one cannot break the laws of physics".
To achieve "absolute fidelity" of recorded music in a car, listen ONLY to music that was originally recorded in a car (yes, in the type of car you are listening in!). Other than that, everything played back in a car is a gross compromise.
The lower the frequency response you are trying to achieve, the more you need: physical space (enclosed volume of the box), physically large, long-throw drivers, and to a lesser extent, amplification.
While it is relatively easy to deliver clear hi-freq. output in a car, not so the bass. It is often overlooked that sonic balance between octaves of high & low freq. material is more pleasing to listeners than overly bass-heavy or overly bright sound (does this remind one of the "hp vs. chassis balance" debate that rages amongst us?).
So, if you desire excessive "sub-bass" (16-32 Hz) at high dB, be prepared to sacrifice speed & accuracy in order to turn your Porsche into a rolling boom box (accent on the boom). Very low freq., visceral, but very poor fidelity. If you want an accurate & dynamic (high transient response) soundfield, be willing to trade-off low-end boom for musicality, balance and realism. Am I revealing a bias?
If you REALLY want lotsa low bass, employ the trunk as an enclosure, driving the whole car's structure - in essence the passenger compartment becomes a section of the INSIDE of a bandpass speaker system.
When you think it through, cars are a riduculous soundfield in which to attempt to replicate a hifi musical experience. The ambient noise floor is far too high (when in motion), the structure far too resonant. Speaker locations are not what an acoustician would choose. Headphones are the cost-effective alternative, but not a wise one in actual use.
Set your priorities, accept an optimal (as opposed to perfect) solution, & select a professional advisor in sync with your values. The Porsche is a driver's machine, not a music-listening device.
To achieve "absolute fidelity" of recorded music in a car, listen ONLY to music that was originally recorded in a car (yes, in the type of car you are listening in!). Other than that, everything played back in a car is a gross compromise.
The lower the frequency response you are trying to achieve, the more you need: physical space (enclosed volume of the box), physically large, long-throw drivers, and to a lesser extent, amplification.
While it is relatively easy to deliver clear hi-freq. output in a car, not so the bass. It is often overlooked that sonic balance between octaves of high & low freq. material is more pleasing to listeners than overly bass-heavy or overly bright sound (does this remind one of the "hp vs. chassis balance" debate that rages amongst us?).
So, if you desire excessive "sub-bass" (16-32 Hz) at high dB, be prepared to sacrifice speed & accuracy in order to turn your Porsche into a rolling boom box (accent on the boom). Very low freq., visceral, but very poor fidelity. If you want an accurate & dynamic (high transient response) soundfield, be willing to trade-off low-end boom for musicality, balance and realism. Am I revealing a bias?
If you REALLY want lotsa low bass, employ the trunk as an enclosure, driving the whole car's structure - in essence the passenger compartment becomes a section of the INSIDE of a bandpass speaker system.
When you think it through, cars are a riduculous soundfield in which to attempt to replicate a hifi musical experience. The ambient noise floor is far too high (when in motion), the structure far too resonant. Speaker locations are not what an acoustician would choose. Headphones are the cost-effective alternative, but not a wise one in actual use.
Set your priorities, accept an optimal (as opposed to perfect) solution, & select a professional advisor in sync with your values. The Porsche is a driver's machine, not a music-listening device.
02-20-2002, 04:00 AM
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There aren't a whole lot of places to put a sub in a cab. I went through the same thing that you are going through now. I couldn't find an installer that I was comfortable with. Some suggested a sub in the front passenger footwell, some suggested a sub enclosure in liew of rear seats... Either way, I wasn't too impressed. I ultimately went with the Reus system and can say that I couldn't be happier. Very professional installation and ingenious subwoofer design.
02-20-2002, 04:32 AM
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snyper27,
Welcome on-board the quest for subs in a 996 Cab.
I have done some research and have found the answer with the help of an audio house, in the UK, who clearly know what to do. They are SQPlus at <a href="http://www.sqplus.com" target="_blank">www.sqplus.com</a> - chaps I spoke to were Phil or Neal.
This is what they recommended;
on the rear section where there is currently a 4" and 1" speaker, he is able to build a fibreglass enclosure to house an 8" sub. Although you will loose the rear stock spkrs in place of an 8" sub, there will be no visible changes made to the look of the panels from the outside. Phil did agree that it would be a difficult build but no more challenging than works they have done in the past. So I would end up with a pair of 8” subs in an enclosure no more than 10litres – most 8” subs need just that volume to perform wonders.
I am in the throws of organising the work to be done and should have the build done by May latest. I hope to get some pictures to show board members. The Plus point here is, IF I wanted to sell the car, the original stock speakers can be put back in place!
Welcome on-board the quest for subs in a 996 Cab.
I have done some research and have found the answer with the help of an audio house, in the UK, who clearly know what to do. They are SQPlus at <a href="http://www.sqplus.com" target="_blank">www.sqplus.com</a> - chaps I spoke to were Phil or Neal.
This is what they recommended;
on the rear section where there is currently a 4" and 1" speaker, he is able to build a fibreglass enclosure to house an 8" sub. Although you will loose the rear stock spkrs in place of an 8" sub, there will be no visible changes made to the look of the panels from the outside. Phil did agree that it would be a difficult build but no more challenging than works they have done in the past. So I would end up with a pair of 8” subs in an enclosure no more than 10litres – most 8” subs need just that volume to perform wonders.
I am in the throws of organising the work to be done and should have the build done by May latest. I hope to get some pictures to show board members. The Plus point here is, IF I wanted to sell the car, the original stock speakers can be put back in place!
03-01-2002, 10:08 AM
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Just to warn you, I just installed a pair of 8 inch subs in my coupe. I am unable to get a good response of frequencies in the range of 15-32 HZ, so I am unable to get the perfect sound stage for my car. I installed the JL Audio 8W3's and they needed only 8.5 liters of space each. I also have gotten some rattles and am currently trying to stop them one by one. I am not sure how it would be in the cab though.
03-01-2002, 12:23 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by SICAONE:
[QB] I just installed a pair of 8 inch subs in my coupe. I am unable to get a good response of frequencies in the range of 15-32 HZ, so I am unable to get the perfect sound stage for my car. QB]<hr></blockquote>
With any 8" sub you will not get good responce from 15-32 as this is beyond their range.
I got two JL 8w0's in my coupe and they do not play low but they fill in the bottom end pretty well. I think my soundstage sounds prety good with it being centered somewhere in the dash. IF the subs are pulling your soundstage into the back of the car then you need to have some adjustments made (fader, gains, frequency cut off, etc.).
The rattles suck though I have not gotten any new ones related to the stereo... yet. The sub enclosure rattled for a bit before I stuffed some towels along the sides to make for a tighter fit.
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
[QB] I just installed a pair of 8 inch subs in my coupe. I am unable to get a good response of frequencies in the range of 15-32 HZ, so I am unable to get the perfect sound stage for my car. QB]<hr></blockquote>
With any 8" sub you will not get good responce from 15-32 as this is beyond their range.
I got two JL 8w0's in my coupe and they do not play low but they fill in the bottom end pretty well. I think my soundstage sounds prety good with it being centered somewhere in the dash. IF the subs are pulling your soundstage into the back of the car then you need to have some adjustments made (fader, gains, frequency cut off, etc.).
The rattles suck though I have not gotten any new ones related to the stereo... yet. The sub enclosure rattled for a bit before I stuffed some towels along the sides to make for a tighter fit.
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
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03-01-2002, 02:22 PM
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Sloth, how much power do you have going to your subs? What brand amplifier did you use? I have them running off an older Fosgate amp at 100 watts each at 2 ohms RMS. This may just be too much power. I get most of my vibrations from where the rear window meets the roof because that is where they are firing at. I am probably going to wedge so rubber in this small space to absorb some rattle.
03-01-2002, 03:50 PM
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I got a JL 500/5 amp. The sub channel is putting out 250w RMS so each sub is getting 125w.
I know the w3 series is a higher performing sub than my w0's, so I know you are not overpowering them. Perhaps the w3's extended abitlites are causing more vibrations.
My system has only been installed for a short time and the fact that my 996 is not a daily driver might be slowing down the rattles. I know how annoying these vibrations can be and I hope you can get them taken care of. I am also hoping that this is not the future of things to come.
I know the w3 series is a higher performing sub than my w0's, so I know you are not overpowering them. Perhaps the w3's extended abitlites are causing more vibrations.
My system has only been installed for a short time and the fact that my 996 is not a daily driver might be slowing down the rattles. I know how annoying these vibrations can be and I hope you can get them taken care of. I am also hoping that this is not the future of things to come.
03-05-2002, 10:06 PM
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You should check out the new Bose system at your dealer. I have an '02 996 Cabrio that I ordered w/ the optional Bose system. The subwoofer is housed in the passenger footwell by the counsel. It is not obtrusive and is just noted by the physical lump. Very nice and strong bass. Even though you can't retrofit it to your car, you can go to an alternate supplier in that fashion. Another option which I went with on my 993 C4 is that I had false rear seats built. Custom enclosures were built in place of the rear seats.They each housed one 8" Kicker Solobaric sub that actually can reproduce low bass in the range as some 10's. Then the seat cushions were reinstalled and it looked factory, just higher. You can still fit small children and the seat belts remain functional as well.
