Engine Replacement III
02-02-2006, 10:01 PM
#76
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Dave Howerdel
Edward,
I know and understand what your saying. It just seemed that Dave S was stating that nothing is gained by stating negative factual information when in fact negative information has caused me to hold out for the best example I can find, not turned me off to a 996 altogether.
99% of the problems I run into with my current pcars can be fixed under the car/hood in a weekend. Not so with the 996 hence the caution.
I know and understand what your saying. It just seemed that Dave S was stating that nothing is gained by stating negative factual information when in fact negative information has caused me to hold out for the best example I can find, not turned me off to a 996 altogether.
99% of the problems I run into with my current pcars can be fixed under the car/hood in a weekend. Not so with the 996 hence the caution.
02-02-2006, 10:02 PM
#77
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Dave Howerdel, no, I absolutely was not saying to curb negative comments. All kinds of information and feedback are important and can be very useful. And I'm sure we all feel for the person who encounters a serious and expensive problem and wants to rant a bit. We need the facts as they are be they negative or positive.
But a poster is not constructive when he makes the same point over and over and adds nothing new. Adding nothing helps nobody so I was just referring to the repetition.
But a poster is not constructive when he makes the same point over and over and adds nothing new. Adding nothing helps nobody so I was just referring to the repetition.
02-02-2006, 11:14 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by Dave Howerdel
I for one am considering purchasing a 996 and am glad there are varying opinions on the board. I don't believe I would feel all warm and fuzzy if I bought a car based on the one dimensional view that the 996 was/is/always will be a perfect car and had the motor crap out 5,000 miles later.
Having two guys on this board with cars that each required 3 motor replacements in under 100,000 miles sure makes me stand up and take notice. I believe access to information such as this is part of reason this board exists and shouldn't be supressed so that those who already own these cars can feel warm and fuzzy about their decision to purchase.
I for one have owned several pcars over the past 20 yrs and have never seen in a pcar the number of or the extent of catastophic failures of a model as I have heard of in the 996. I have taken many of my cars to the 200,000 mile mark and in all cases, any engine failure was due to normal wear with fortelling symptoms that indicate attention is needed. I never considered a rod sticking out of an engine or a gallon of oil underneath the car to be a symptom.
Having two guys on this board with cars that each required 3 motor replacements in under 100,000 miles sure makes me stand up and take notice. I believe access to information such as this is part of reason this board exists and shouldn't be supressed so that those who already own these cars can feel warm and fuzzy about their decision to purchase.
I for one have owned several pcars over the past 20 yrs and have never seen in a pcar the number of or the extent of catastophic failures of a model as I have heard of in the 996. I have taken many of my cars to the 200,000 mile mark and in all cases, any engine failure was due to normal wear with fortelling symptoms that indicate attention is needed. I never considered a rod sticking out of an engine or a gallon of oil underneath the car to be a symptom.
Dave, I am also looking for the same car you are and have been proceeding with caution based on the engine failure posts i've read in here. After doing this for a few months, however, You do start to detect a pattern to these posts, and 100 of them are made by Bob. Due to this fact, you begin to ask yourself, is it really widespread or is a lot of this the same one guy posting over and over?
For all the bad I've read about this car in this forum, there are a lot of places one would consider reputable that hold this car's reliability in high esteem. JD powers ranked the 2002 911 number two in LONG -TERM reliability, just below the lexus ( no shock there). Now say what you will about them, but they do get 1,000's of test samples to reach their conclusions. There appears to be little doubt that Porsche makes the most reliable german-built cars, buy may/may not have an occasional catastrophic failure with their engines for no driver-based reason ( like an moneyshift).
So, like yourself, I love the car but i just don't know
In the interim I've decided to buy an m3 convertible and wait another yr/18 months on the 911. Also, have a little understanding about some of the members here tiring of Bob's posts, they probably are a little skewed based on his frustrations < frustrations well earned by his experiences>.
02-03-2006, 08:17 AM
#79
JD powers ranked the 2002 911 number two in LONG -TERM reliability, just below the lexus ( no shock there). Now say what you will about them, but they do get 1,000's of test samples to reach their conclusions. There appears to be little doubt that Porsche makes the most reliable german-built cars, buy may/may not have an occasional catastrophic failure with their engines for no driver-based reason ( like an moneyshift).
Does anyone know the methodolgy used by JD Powers? I know that their new car quality reports are determined by the number of problems reported. In other words if the owner of a new car has a rattle that needs repair, that counts as one problem. If another owner needs his engine replaced, that counts as one problem.
I remember back in '02, JD Powers rated the quality of the M3 very high, despite the fact that hundreds of its engines were blowing and there was a recall for all '02 M3s built within a specified period of time. BTW I owned an '02 M3 with a blown engine. It took BMW a month before they were able to get a new engine. BMW did give me the extended 6 yr/100K mile warranty. Needless to say, despite having only one problem , a blown engine, I did not consider my M3 a reliable car.
Does anyone know the methodolgy used by JD Powers? I know that their new car quality reports are determined by the number of problems reported. In other words if the owner of a new car has a rattle that needs repair, that counts as one problem. If another owner needs his engine replaced, that counts as one problem.
I remember back in '02, JD Powers rated the quality of the M3 very high, despite the fact that hundreds of its engines were blowing and there was a recall for all '02 M3s built within a specified period of time. BTW I owned an '02 M3 with a blown engine. It took BMW a month before they were able to get a new engine. BMW did give me the extended 6 yr/100K mile warranty. Needless to say, despite having only one problem , a blown engine, I did not consider my M3 a reliable car.
02-03-2006, 12:12 PM
#80
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The JD power survey for used cars also deals with the severity of problems in additin to the number of problems. So it should reflect engine failures as something different then needing new wiper blades. As to Bob I am statring to think that he just enjoys stirring the pot and watching the rest of us do a slow boil.
02-03-2006, 02:21 PM
#81
Cap'n Insane the Engorged
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Originally Posted by Dave Howerdel
Having two guys on this board with cars that each required 3 motor replacements in under 100,000 miles sure makes me stand up and take notice.
This is Joe's 3rd thread on the subject, not his 3rd engine.
02-03-2006, 10:50 PM
#83
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by flyenby
After reading all of this I am glad I own a 993...................
J/K......love the 993 and would love to add one to my garage but the 996 is a great car and superior to the 993 as is the 997 superior to the 996.....but the problem with the 996 is that was just WAY OVERPRODUCED so any problems are highlighted and blown WAY out of proportion.
02-06-2006, 03:00 PM
#84
Rennlist Member
IMHO, if Bob *really* wanted to contribute (as opposed to adding a few more kicks to a long-dead horse) he would say something like "Buyer beware - be sure to check my problems here: <post link> <post link> <post link>."
Re-stating things that have already been debated ad nauseum only irritates people. Never mind the statistics...
Re-stating things that have already been debated ad nauseum only irritates people. Never mind the statistics...
