Nutbeem

As my 2002 C4S makes its way across the country to me from the east coast to LA, the prev. owner has e-mailed me to ask me to fedex him the original title back so he can get a "tax credit" on his next purchase at a dealer in Boston (who says he needs the original, not a copy, of the title of his previous car).

I'm not sure how things work back there on the east coast, does anyone know what he's talking about? He lives in Pennsylvania.

He's been a great seller, he's a VP at a New York company, and he's promised to FedEx it back to me the next day - i've no reason not to trust him, but I just want to make sure it's a legit deal. To the best of my knowledge, California has nothing like this, so I'm not sure...

Any thoughts?

TT Surgeon

Ask him about a notarized copy, that should be OK.

Palting

You bought a car from this guy, paid for it and is now being shipped to you, now he wants you to Fedex him back the title? Are you nuts? It would need an unreasonable amount of trust between two strangers for that to happen. In fact, I would now question if the sale or the car is legit. If it's not yet paid for, hold any payments until you see the car and inspect it and the title.

It may all be innocent, but in this world and at this day and age, I would hold on to the title, and check the whole car from top to bottom when it arrives, and do another title check.

BlackCab996

Do not give up the title - as "surgeon" stated, give him a notarized copy at most - that's still a pain for you to do, but you're still going out of your way if you do that - it may not be anything dishonest, but what if it is? I'm a business owner and a former CPA, and I can't figure out what he needs it for, unless he's an independent dealer or a broker, and it sounds like he's not. If he's a VP at some company (those titles get handed out all the time), he's trying to do something to avoid some type of taxes via a method that he heard about at the last second and it may not be legal...and that's not your problem.

kilrgt

No the car and title belong to you, Dont trust anyone you dont know.I would not do that...

djantlive

He's probly buying a new car from a dealer and wants to use the car he sold to you as a trade in to save taxes. This works in most states except CA. When he is done with the title, your car will be sold to you from the dealer.

What's there for you to lose? He may be an evil guy and you may never get your car. Also, he is no longer accountable for the car that sold you since you appearantly bought it from a dealer on paper. Without a bill of sales from a dealer or him, it'll be harder to point responsibility should anything go wrong with the car.

What's there to gain? Nothing, unless he splits some of his tax savings with you.

Sounds like a simple answer, unless he gives you some incentive, don't take the risks.

LVDell

Something just doesn't add up. How does he get a tax credit for selling YOU a car??? I would be very wary of what is going on here.

It sounds like he sold you the car and then found a car that he wants and the dealer asked him if he had a trade and he said no that he sold it privately. Then the dealer told him had he sold to you through the dealer (like a pass-through) then he would have got trade-in credit by trading it in to the dealer and then the dealer selling it to you for what they bought it from him for. By doing it this way he MAKES $$$ on the deal by saving in his taxes. He would then only pay tax on the difference between his new car and the amount he "traded-in". It could be substantial.

For example if you bought the car for $60K and the tax rate is 6% that he is pocketing almost $4000 by using the dealer as a pass through!!! Is he sharing that with you? No. The reason he might need the title is that he will give the dealer the title, the dealer will own it for one day, and sell it to you. That will also add another "previous owner" to the whole deal as well.

Should you even consider his request? Personally I would say no. A title is almost like cash. You send it to him and he decides to stop taking your calls, etc., and guess what, you wake up one morning and you car is gone because the "rightful" owner has reposessed it. As another poster stated you need to really question the entire sale now. THOROUGHLY inspect that car when you get it. In other words, get a PPI done immediately. Except here the first P in PPI now stands for post and not pre.

Oh yeah, and don't forget to go put that title in a safe place. You paid the guy, you have received the car (almost). As far I can see, your communication with this guy is done.

Worst case scenario.....you disregard our advice and fedex him the title and then you never hear from him and you car that was supposed to be on a truck never was and you are out a car and all the cash you spent. Don't be the next story on the local news about the guy who got scammed.

ebaker

What he wants to do is an "in and out", where, on paper, he sells the car to the dealer then the dealer immediately sells it to you "as is". Then if he buys a car from the dealer he's taxed like its a trade in. After you get the car in your possession consider doing it if he will give you some type of security. You should also talk to a manager at the dealer he's working with, make sure he's paid any fees the dealer charges. The seller made the mistake of not getting you to agree to this ahead of time.

Brick

I have done this in & out. Why not? But not after the sale. If you send the title, the dealer process it and will have to send it to you, possibly after some period of time. I agree on the incentive. Your seller should pay you to send the title to the dealer, which you should contact and qualify as what will happen. If all is well, you'll make a little, $500 isn't too much to ask IMO as this is close to $3,000 savings, and the dealer sends you a clear title. But make sure the dealer is a reputable one, or you're still out. If the seller doesn't want to share the gain, forget it. Also if your c4s has the Porsche extended warranty you need to be sure it is not a Porsche dealer or you will lose the warranty.

C4CRNA

OK let me get this straight!! You paid the money. You have the title. The car is NOT in your posession yet? You're thinking of sending the title BACK to the seller. DON"T DO IT!!!!

LVDell

There is a reason why you get more when you sell private versus trade-in. Selling private MAXIMIZES your profit but it usually is close to a wash when you trade-in since you get the tax credit (granted you are in a tax credit on trade-in state). If this is in fact a legit guy and the story behind the need for the title then he is making a cool $3-4K in profit on top of the private party sale. not bad for spending a couple bucks in FedEx to make more money on the sale. My suggestion if EVERYTHING checks out should you decide to agree to this is to split the difference of the tax credit.

Should you decide to go on faith and believe this story then there are things to understand:
1. If the C4S is a CPO then you lose that by going through a non-Porsche dealer.
2. If the dealer he is using is a Porsche dealer and your car in NOT a CPO then ask to have it CPO'ed. (but, unlikey since the car is not able to be inspected) and if it is a Porsche dealer and the car was a CPO then they need to CPO it again.
3. Remember, that you entering into a legal transaction with the dealer and everything that goes with that.
4. There are fees that would need to be paid that are standard on every sale so the other guy would need to be responsible for that.
5. You would not legally own the car during this whole process until everthing is completed and the new title from the dealer's sale to you is in your posession.

This is something that I personally would not do post hoc. Had this all been dislosed ahead of time and you were aware that the seller was buying a new car and that his new dealer was brokering the deal as a pass-through then it would have been easier to feel confident. But now? NO WAY.

Nutbeem

Thanks so much for the responses, I believe that is in fact what he's intending, which is to treat the car as a trade in. We had, at one time, agreed to meet at a dealer to make this transaction happen, but he couldn't decide between the Jag and the Aston, so he let me just take it.

If I lived back there, it would be easier, but being so far away it doesn't look good.

I like the idea of dealing directly with the dealer for a cut of the tax credit, although the whole thing sounds a bit shifty. I'd rather we just all pay our fees and go on our motoring ways...

LVDell

Good choice. Going with your gut is what is usually the best decision.

TT Surgeon

Not worth the few hundred bucks, I would pass. All this wheeling and dealing should have been laid out in the open before you consumated the deal.
If he meant to do it before, then just got in a hurry to get the cash and now he wants it both ways, forget it, his tough luck.
Goes in the life's a bitch then you marry one catagory.

Nutbeem

Yeah, you're right Chris. I just sent him a note saying no-go. He sold the car for almost 5 grand more to me than the dealer was going to pay him, so he's still ahead a bit.

I need him to sign an odometer certificate when I title the car in CA, let's hope he doesn't hold a grudge.