STRSHP

You guys are a wealth of knowledge. The interesting thing about this is I provided the K&N to the local dealer in its box, oiled as it comes from the manufacturer. Clearly the dealer knew what they were installeing and no one told me about the issue. Have checked my bill and there is no note on it telling me I am on my own. I must admit to feeling a bit faster at Summit Point last weekend, until I over cooked turn 1 (Karl where were you? It was my last DE with Potomac), but I agree the incremental gain is not worth the risk.

So the long intro to this question. If the dealership installs a part, does not tell the customer of a potential problem and the system fails, where does the fault lie?

NMoore

If Summit Point is a track, I would not boast about your lap times while you are in for warranty fixes!

If Porsche is really not honoring the warranty for MAF repairs due to this (I do not know), there is no question your dealer should have warned you about it.

Slow economy, put filter in, diagnosis, repair (warranty or not they get paid), another new filter--connect the dots.

cmoss

If you watch a K&N comercial you will see them floting a little ball up a tube. This is supposed to measure "air flow." Of course the K&N filter lifts the ball higher. All sorts of claims follow... Just give me a set of before/after dyno's and let me see any supposed hp gain. As I recall, those that have dynoed their cars found little if any hp gain. Some even saw a drop in hp.

Bottom line: If it was that easy to get any extra hp, wouldn't the factory have done it?

Cheers,
Chris

Jason @ Paragon Products

WWest, I'm sorry if you feel the statement is misleading, but unless Porsche offers free filters or specifically prohibits oiled filters (in writing), they cannot void the cars warranty. Here's a link with more information on Magnuson-Moss:

<a href="http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/ftc/warranties/undermag.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides/ftc/warranties/undermag.htm</a>

Loren

Chris,

I agree... but they DO put low restriction filters on some cars. I have nothing agaist K&N but the factory DOES put the BMC filters on GT3 Cup cars as well as GT3R's.

Jason @ Paragon Products

Here's a bit more. Basically, unless Porsche has requested and received a waiver from Porsche, they cannot void your warranty for using a K&N.
_______________________________
Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act and general principles of the Federal Trade Commission, a manufacturer may not make its vehicle warranty conditional on the use of any specific brand of motor oil, oil filter or any other component, unless the manufacturer provides it to the customer free of charge. An equipment manufacturer can obtain a waiver if it proves to the FTC that its equipment will function properly only if specific brands of motor oil, oil filters or other components are used. The FTC must be satisfied that this is in the public interest, and this waiver must be published in the Federal Register. This is considered a "waiver" of the prohibitions on conditions of written warranty.

__________________________________________

Jason @ Paragon Products

Oops, meant to say requested and received a waiver from the FTC.

willwest

Do any of us, were we sitting on a jury, truly believe the K&N filter is a like/kind replacement for the factory supplied/recommended filter?

K&N doesn't even believe so, otherwise they would sell it in the same manner as Fram does, P/N CA3462(??) is a direct replacement/substitute for the factory filter.

If a Porsche dealer, of all people, knowingly sold and installed a component that negated my factory warranty, I would fully expect that same dealer to provide his own warranty as a substitute.

If he didn't I would then hire a damn good attorney.

NMoore

Aftermarket cotton filters almost certainly are capable of more air flow than paper filters. They even sound more open in my experience, I have had them.

This does not mean a street car application will have a meaningful gain, especially running stock cams, valves and exhaust. That is to say, is the OE paper filter actually overtaxed?

Apart from the nature of racing demanding even trivial performance gains at high cost, real race engines only have to last a few hundred miles. So you see them there, right application. A racer also maybe gets compensated to run a particular product. You would think from racing that every sports car ought to ship OE with Goodyears.

Ed Newman

The air filter should be an easy case, try like and kind on headers, camshafts, different intake manifolds, computers, etc. It can get dicey.

Patrick

Yes, Will, I would, if sitting on a jury, truly believe that the K&N filter is a like/kind replacement for the factory supplied/recommended filter. I would, knowing as I do, that many manufacurers offer house-branded K&N filters as their own. Even Harley offers them for their bikes, even the VROD which has a Porsche designed engine.

[quote]Originally posted by willwest:
<strong>Do any of us, were we sitting on a jury, truly believe the K&N filter is a like/kind replacement for the factory supplied/recommended filter?

K&N doesn't even believe so, otherwise they would sell it in the same manner as Fram does, P/N CA3462(??) is a direct replacement/substitute for the factory filter.

If a Porsche dealer, of all people, knowingly sold and installed a component that negated my factory warranty, I would fully expect that same dealer to provide his own warranty as a substitute.

If he didn't I would then hire a damn good attorney.</strong><hr></blockquote>

caf

As a lurker who hangs out mostly on the BMW boards (but an ex P-car owner x 2), I'd like to clarify the Magnuson-Moss Act. The intent of this act was to prevent manufacturers from having a monopoly on aftermarket parts. They can not require a certain brand name be used in order for the warranty to be valid. They CAN however, require that a certain spec. be met(or require that the aftermarket product is the functional equivalent of the OEM product).

I have seen some pretty convincing research from the BMW side that shows virtually no air-flow benefit to K & N filters over the OEM. Furthermore, the dirt trap studies found that the K & N filters were LESS effective than the OEM in trapping dirt. I would assume that Porsche's OEM filters are of comparable quality. Does anyone really think that Porsche would not supply K & N as stock if they felt they could get more hp without sacrificing filter efficiency? The cost would be truly minimal to them. I think it's very likely that Porsche could prove a K & N filter to be inferior in engine protection to the OEM in the event of a warranty dispute.