Got smoked by a CBR Bike last Saturday morning
07-13-2003, 06:02 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Waz996:
<strong>I do have a few posts on bikes vs 996 as i do have quite a hefty experience with bikes.. my only competitors in Nigeria were bikes, for the lack of supercars *or the waste of carreras and the like driven by show off yuppies*
Anyway, fact is there is no way you can win 0-60 with a 750cc or more.. Otherwise, if you do catch them at +140km, you can go along head to head till 250 after which the carrera's aerodynamics take over.. I've raced two 750's up to 250km/hr and then overtook them after 270km/hr..
Talking about twisties, the carrera will surely control the situation since no bike can take lateral g's the way a carrera can handle +0.80g
Now Carlos, i did race a GSX1000R like yours.. Carrera loses on all counts.. the 1000R takes advantage of the straights and loses some time on the twisties but not to let me even get close.. He was just too fast.
Last impression is that if ever one should race with a bike, never do it behind the biker.. From experience point of view, I almost ran one of the bikes in an emergency braking maneouver.. I still shiver!
Waz</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I experienced the same thing too staright-line vs twisties from both points of view
But todays 1000cc bikes are just crazy, they are just race bikes with a licence plate on them, their acceleration, their brakes, their tires, their riding position, etc. Its an experience that shouldn't be missed, even if its just a test ride.
Especcially the GSX-R1000, after riding the 2002 model and now the 2003, if I encounter one with my car, I'll just salute with the fellow biker "V" sign and proceed my own way
<strong>I do have a few posts on bikes vs 996 as i do have quite a hefty experience with bikes.. my only competitors in Nigeria were bikes, for the lack of supercars *or the waste of carreras and the like driven by show off yuppies*
Anyway, fact is there is no way you can win 0-60 with a 750cc or more.. Otherwise, if you do catch them at +140km, you can go along head to head till 250 after which the carrera's aerodynamics take over.. I've raced two 750's up to 250km/hr and then overtook them after 270km/hr..
Talking about twisties, the carrera will surely control the situation since no bike can take lateral g's the way a carrera can handle +0.80g
Now Carlos, i did race a GSX1000R like yours.. Carrera loses on all counts.. the 1000R takes advantage of the straights and loses some time on the twisties but not to let me even get close.. He was just too fast.
Last impression is that if ever one should race with a bike, never do it behind the biker.. From experience point of view, I almost ran one of the bikes in an emergency braking maneouver.. I still shiver!
Waz</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I experienced the same thing too staright-line vs twisties from both points of view
But todays 1000cc bikes are just crazy, they are just race bikes with a licence plate on them, their acceleration, their brakes, their tires, their riding position, etc. Its an experience that shouldn't be missed, even if its just a test ride.
Especcially the GSX-R1000, after riding the 2002 model and now the 2003, if I encounter one with my car, I'll just salute with the fellow biker "V" sign and proceed my own way
07-13-2003, 01:19 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
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Carlos,
Before leaving lagos, i drove the Yamaha R1 for a couple of minutes and it just left me thinking that any car is just not worthy in respect of performance, pick-up and most important feeling the power surge.. Bikes of that sort and yours are just another dimension that need not compared to the carreras and the like..
Waz
Before leaving lagos, i drove the Yamaha R1 for a couple of minutes and it just left me thinking that any car is just not worthy in respect of performance, pick-up and most important feeling the power surge.. Bikes of that sort and yours are just another dimension that need not compared to the carreras and the like..
Waz
07-13-2003, 01:31 PM
#18
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Waz, I knew you coulnd't resist trying the R1
They are very dangerous though as you now
... I'm taking advantage of them as much as I can now because when I have kids soon I will probably have to let go <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />
They are very dangerous though as you now
... I'm taking advantage of them as much as I can now because when I have kids soon I will probably have to let go <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />
07-14-2003, 09:15 AM
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"... because when I have kids soon I will probably have to let go"
Naah!!! I'm 58 years old; been riding bikes all my life. Currently doing it on a Ducati 996. I try to hit at least 130MPH every time I ride. Best speed so far (Yes, deserted road with plenty of visibility on all sides) was an indicated 150MPH. Since bike speedos are not known for accuracy, I'm sure the actual was something below that.
I have to admit my wife doesn't like hearing that. Then again, she jumps horses so she knows she has no room to complain about risks!
Anyway, my point is DON'T believe you have to give up something just because you are getting "older" from a responsibility point of view. If you give it up for some artificially-imposed outside restriction, you'll just be totally unhappy.
Best advice I ever got: "Always drive a fast car (or Motorcycle) and you can't go wrong." That advice was given to me at age 17. It's never been wrong!!
Keep riding!
Naah!!! I'm 58 years old; been riding bikes all my life. Currently doing it on a Ducati 996. I try to hit at least 130MPH every time I ride. Best speed so far (Yes, deserted road with plenty of visibility on all sides) was an indicated 150MPH. Since bike speedos are not known for accuracy, I'm sure the actual was something below that.
I have to admit my wife doesn't like hearing that. Then again, she jumps horses so she knows she has no room to complain about risks!
Anyway, my point is DON'T believe you have to give up something just because you are getting "older" from a responsibility point of view. If you give it up for some artificially-imposed outside restriction, you'll just be totally unhappy.
Best advice I ever got: "Always drive a fast car (or Motorcycle) and you can't go wrong." That advice was given to me at age 17. It's never been wrong!!
Keep riding!
07-14-2003, 09:54 AM
#21
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Thanks Mike, I like your spirit <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> Problem is I know myself and I'm the dangerous part with bikes of such potential as the Gixxer or the Duc, and spanish roads are just one big track, even worse, my area has the highest motocycle related deaths in the country (mountanous-winding roads, mediterranean type drivers, ausome highways for all out WOT, good weather, little or very predictable speed traps and deeply rooted sportbike fanatism culture <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ). I have lost a few friends/riding buddies and family members to motorcycle accidents over then years so make one feel your pushing your luck
But I guess you are right, and I will probably never have the will to give them up anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> and my wife knows how I feel about bikes and how I grew up as a child riding them that she would never make me give them up (she is actually incredibly brave to ride as a passenger with me at tripple digit speeds, I know I wouldn't)... but if I have a little kid
07-14-2003, 10:29 AM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Now hear this....
On previous postings, I have said that I don't like to race boy-racers at the lights. But yesterday I snapped and something amazing happened.
I was at the stop lights approaching the motorway entrance (Freeway to you guys). They went green and I moved off (at normal speed). Suddenly a Subaru Impreza came shooting thru the lights followed by a BMW M5, followed by a Yamaha bike. All three of them shot the lights at speed and entered the motorway. I had to swerve to miss the bike, the guy next to me slammed on and he got ploughed in his rear. Thankfully I didn't suffer any damage.....except I was soooooo pissed off. I mean I was freakin mad! In a split second I turned into a total monster. I slammed the pedal to the metal and chased after these idiots not realizing I was an idiot for doing so. Well the amazing thing is, I took those bastards out completely. I mean I flew past em...and that was from almost a standstill. I don't know what type of Yamaha it was but it was a mean mother. All done up to do racing. Looked at least 500cc but probably bigger. Big huge fat round tyres on the back. The Impreza was a piece of cake, the M5 was a little harder but I tell you guys, I just flew past them with no effort. The bike obviously was the hardest. But it was absolute no match to my 996.... I even had way more to go as they gradually got smaller and smaller in my rear view.
I was doing 140, AND with top down too, and it was sweet.
This is the first time I have ever done this speed and after it I had to pull off the motorway to have a cigarette. I was shaking with adrenaline.
But I tell you guys, this car is the business.
F...g amazing!
But it frightened the livin dlight out of me. I mean there I was Jekyl and next moment Hyde.
I just did it....and on the straight too.....and I am only driving a C2S....imagine if it was a Turbo. So don't go tell me that you can't take a bike out.
On previous postings, I have said that I don't like to race boy-racers at the lights. But yesterday I snapped and something amazing happened.
I was at the stop lights approaching the motorway entrance (Freeway to you guys). They went green and I moved off (at normal speed). Suddenly a Subaru Impreza came shooting thru the lights followed by a BMW M5, followed by a Yamaha bike. All three of them shot the lights at speed and entered the motorway. I had to swerve to miss the bike, the guy next to me slammed on and he got ploughed in his rear. Thankfully I didn't suffer any damage.....except I was soooooo pissed off. I mean I was freakin mad! In a split second I turned into a total monster. I slammed the pedal to the metal and chased after these idiots not realizing I was an idiot for doing so. Well the amazing thing is, I took those bastards out completely. I mean I flew past em...and that was from almost a standstill. I don't know what type of Yamaha it was but it was a mean mother. All done up to do racing. Looked at least 500cc but probably bigger. Big huge fat round tyres on the back. The Impreza was a piece of cake, the M5 was a little harder but I tell you guys, I just flew past them with no effort. The bike obviously was the hardest. But it was absolute no match to my 996.... I even had way more to go as they gradually got smaller and smaller in my rear view.
I was doing 140, AND with top down too, and it was sweet.
This is the first time I have ever done this speed and after it I had to pull off the motorway to have a cigarette. I was shaking with adrenaline.
But I tell you guys, this car is the business.
F...g amazing!
But it frightened the livin dlight out of me. I mean there I was Jekyl and next moment Hyde.
I just did it....and on the straight too.....and I am only driving a C2S....imagine if it was a Turbo. So don't go tell me that you can't take a bike out.
07-18-2003, 01:29 AM
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Originally posted by Carlos from Spain
...
Now, a 1000cc doesn't even need to reduce gears and the advantage would too great to make it up on the curves, even on a place with lots of curvers like nurburgring, any 1000cc can lap under 8mins, but on a slower twisty track such as Hockenheim the 996 would win.
...
...
Now, a 1000cc doesn't even need to reduce gears and the advantage would too great to make it up on the curves, even on a place with lots of curvers like nurburgring, any 1000cc can lap under 8mins, but on a slower twisty track such as Hockenheim the 996 would win.
...
not quite. I had this discussion over a few beers (in the evening!) when I did some biking on the Nurburgring with Horst von Saurma and Helmut Daehne. Horst is an ex-racer and editor-in-chief of Sport Auto. He holds most of the Porsche lap records on the Ring. Helmut is an ex-racer and Metzeler representative. He holds the bike record on the Ring and has won the production TT on the Isle of Man. They made the following interesting points:
- Both on the Ring and at Hockenheim a performance bike like a Gixxer beats a 996TT at any time in the dry (given a top rider/driver).
- Only when you go to 450hp+ and race rubber does the car catch up.
- Tyres are the main lever to improving lap times.
- The real reason is that a GSX-R1000 and its tyres are much closer to race technology than, say, a 996TT. An easy proof is that teams now use virtually stock Gixxers in 8h and 24h endurance races.
- Helmut's Ring record of approx. 7.47 has been done 10 years ago on a Honda RC30. When I asked him if he could beat that today on his R1 or a Gixxer, he said probably not, because even for him it is difficult to use the extra power in all but a few places and in fast flowing sections of the Ring like Kesselchen he struggels with the bike's weight and inertia.
Cheers,
Uwe
07-18-2003, 03:43 AM
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Originally posted by umn
Hi Carlos,
not quite. I had this discussion over a few beers (in the evening!) when I did some biking on the Nurburgring with Horst von Saurma and Helmut Daehne. Horst is an ex-racer and editor-in-chief of Sport Auto. He holds most of the Porsche lap records on the Ring. Helmut is an ex-racer and Metzeler representative. He holds the bike record on the Ring and has won the production TT on the Isle of Man. They made the following interesting points:
- Both on the Ring and at Hockenheim a performance bike like a Gixxer beats a 996TT at any time in the dry (given a top rider/driver).
- Only when you go to 450hp+ and race rubber does the car catch up.
- Tyres are the main lever to improving lap times.
- The real reason is that a GSX-R1000 and its tyres are much closer to race technology than, say, a 996TT. An easy proof is that teams now use virtually stock Gixxers in 8h and 24h endurance races.
- Helmut's Ring record of approx. 7.47 has been done 10 years ago on a Honda RC30. When I asked him if he could beat that today on his R1 or a Gixxer, he said probably not, because even for him it is difficult to use the extra power in all but a few places and in fast flowing sections of the Ring like Kesselchen he struggels with the bike's weight and inertia.
Cheers,
Uwe
Hi Carlos,
not quite. I had this discussion over a few beers (in the evening!) when I did some biking on the Nurburgring with Horst von Saurma and Helmut Daehne. Horst is an ex-racer and editor-in-chief of Sport Auto. He holds most of the Porsche lap records on the Ring. Helmut is an ex-racer and Metzeler representative. He holds the bike record on the Ring and has won the production TT on the Isle of Man. They made the following interesting points:
- Both on the Ring and at Hockenheim a performance bike like a Gixxer beats a 996TT at any time in the dry (given a top rider/driver).
- Only when you go to 450hp+ and race rubber does the car catch up.
- Tyres are the main lever to improving lap times.
- The real reason is that a GSX-R1000 and its tyres are much closer to race technology than, say, a 996TT. An easy proof is that teams now use virtually stock Gixxers in 8h and 24h endurance races.
- Helmut's Ring record of approx. 7.47 has been done 10 years ago on a Honda RC30. When I asked him if he could beat that today on his R1 or a Gixxer, he said probably not, because even for him it is difficult to use the extra power in all but a few places and in fast flowing sections of the Ring like Kesselchen he struggels with the bike's weight and inertia.
Cheers,
Uwe
I read your post twice but I can't find what you disagree in refference to my post you quoted, since I agree with everything you said in your reply post.
07-18-2003, 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by Carlos from Spain
Hi Uwe,
I read your post twice but I can't find what you disagree in refference to my post you quoted, since I agree with everything you said in your reply post.
Hi Uwe,
I read your post twice but I can't find what you disagree in refference to my post you quoted, since I agree with everything you said in your reply post.
OK, you says:
"On a slower twisty track such as Hockenheim the 996 would win."
I says
"No"
Hockenheim has two courses, the GP and the sog. "Kleiner Kurs". The "Kleiner Kurs" ist the twisty one, because it hasn't got the remaining parts of the "Waldgerade". On the "Kleiner Kurs", a 996TT does about 1:15, an Gixxer on BT12SS about 1:10.
Cheers,
Uwe
07-18-2003, 05:36 AM
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Originally posted by umn
Hi,
OK, you says:
"On a slower twisty track such as Hockenheim the 996 would win."
I says
"No"
Hockenheim has two courses, the GP and the sog. "Kleiner Kurs". The "Kleiner Kurs" ist the twisty one, because it hasn't got the remaining parts of the "Waldgerade". On the "Kleiner Kurs", a 996TT does about 1:15, an Gixxer on BT12SS about 1:10.
Cheers,
Uwe
Hi,
OK, you says:
"On a slower twisty track such as Hockenheim the 996 would win."
I says
"No"
Hockenheim has two courses, the GP and the sog. "Kleiner Kurs". The "Kleiner Kurs" ist the twisty one, because it hasn't got the remaining parts of the "Waldgerade". On the "Kleiner Kurs", a 996TT does about 1:15, an Gixxer on BT12SS about 1:10.
Cheers,
Uwe
I thought that Kleiner Kurs was twisty enough for the car to win, but I guess its not. I'm very impressed at the GSX-R1000... I didn't know the Gixxer on its stock tires could pull a 1:10 there
You need to call in a 996 GT3 Cup to beat that among other things its got slick tures 
BTW a GSX-R750 ('98) and a Kawa ZX-9R ('00) have done 7:55 already in the 20,832Km standard course at Nurburgring. And if those can do that I can imagine what the current gixxer 1000 will do in the ring given the proper driver.
Last edited by Carlos from Spain; 07-18-2003 at 05:44 AM.
07-18-2003, 06:36 AM
#27
Drifting
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Carlos and Uwe are right in that if you want the ultimate acceleration superbikes are IT, not even close. As Carlos points out, the negative is your risk profile, ie chance of injury or death, is much much higher on the street on the bike[even if you don't make the mistake]. Be careful Carlos, I am very glad to hear you are thinking of your safety... and your family.
I am chased by superbikes frequently in the Santa Monica Mountains where i live. No way i can hold them in a straight even in the gt2, but there are few... straights and one set of 2nd gear esses and i can't even see them any more they're so far behind...
and every weekend, the ambulance come to Malibu and takes home the dead and the wounded superbikers, AKA temporary Americans...
I am chased by superbikes frequently in the Santa Monica Mountains where i live. No way i can hold them in a straight even in the gt2, but there are few... straights and one set of 2nd gear esses and i can't even see them any more they're so far behind...
and every weekend, the ambulance come to Malibu and takes home the dead and the wounded superbikers, AKA temporary Americans...
07-18-2003, 06:43 AM
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Hi Carlos,
yes, von Saurma thought that a kilo-gixxer would give a GT2 a run for its money, and he did a sub-7:50 (7:46?) in a GT2 on stock tyres.
It is difficult to get accurate times, though, because the proper timing is from T13 to T13 (the old finish line) and you can only do that when the Ring is closed. Otherwise they don't let you nail it down the long straight at Doettinger Hoehe, because it's used as entry and exit. So a lot of times you see posted on the net are approximations.
The all-time lap record, however, is an incredible 6:11 in a 956 by the late Stefan Bellof.
Cheers,
Uwe
yes, von Saurma thought that a kilo-gixxer would give a GT2 a run for its money, and he did a sub-7:50 (7:46?) in a GT2 on stock tyres.
It is difficult to get accurate times, though, because the proper timing is from T13 to T13 (the old finish line) and you can only do that when the Ring is closed. Otherwise they don't let you nail it down the long straight at Doettinger Hoehe, because it's used as entry and exit. So a lot of times you see posted on the net are approximations.
The all-time lap record, however, is an incredible 6:11 in a 956 by the late Stefan Bellof.
Cheers,
Uwe
07-18-2003, 06:54 AM
#29
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uwe,
yeah n-ring times for gt2, maybe new gt3 right there with those gix... must be enough corners!!
btw, here we are with the temporary americanos....
yeah n-ring times for gt2, maybe new gt3 right there with those gix... must be enough corners!!
btw, here we are with the temporary americanos....
Last edited by Sun Ra; 03-29-2013 at 12:13 AM.
07-18-2003, 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by umn
Hi Carlos,
yes, von Saurma thought that a kilo-gixxer would give a GT2 a run for its money, and he did a sub-7:50 (7:46?) in a GT2 on stock tyres.
It is difficult to get accurate times, though, because the proper timing is from T13 to T13 (the old finish line) and you can only do that when the Ring is closed. Otherwise they don't let you nail it down the long straight at Doettinger Hoehe, because it's used as entry and exit. So a lot of times you see posted on the net are approximations.
The all-time lap record, however, is an incredible 6:11 in a 956 by the late Stefan Bellof.
Cheers,
Uwe
Hi Carlos,
yes, von Saurma thought that a kilo-gixxer would give a GT2 a run for its money, and he did a sub-7:50 (7:46?) in a GT2 on stock tyres.
It is difficult to get accurate times, though, because the proper timing is from T13 to T13 (the old finish line) and you can only do that when the Ring is closed. Otherwise they don't let you nail it down the long straight at Doettinger Hoehe, because it's used as entry and exit. So a lot of times you see posted on the net are approximations.
The all-time lap record, however, is an incredible 6:11 in a 956 by the late Stefan Bellof.
Cheers,
Uwe
though the Saurma's GT2's 7:46 is very fast but I think the gixxer on a warm dry day could beat that though not by much.BTW that 6:11 of Bellof is not a real 6:11 because it was done in 2km shorter of the old ring course of 20,832m, rather than the current standard 22,832m lap, but its still amazing, nothing is best suited for the ring as a Porsche