996 club racer, DE car, or dual purpose?
09-12-2005, 09:36 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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996 club racer, DE car, or dual purpose?
at first wanted to sell my '99 C2 but then realized after all its track abuse wouldn't get much for it. thinking that with the 997's out and the market flooded with facelift cars there isnt much desire for any of the original 996's. ..esp ones that still have the amber lights in them. unless that becomes a rare and collectible condtion 
so what do i do with the car now? i don't see too many 3.4L 996's club racing...cup cars make up most of hte new bodystyle 911s i see. i can see my car headed towards track only use, but i'm sure i'll want to drive it on the street occasionally. the expected response is of course, GT3 seats and tequipment rollcage, but that doesn't really follow the path towards a club racing setup (i'd have to start all over, right?)
:no idea what to do:
so what do i do with the car now? i don't see too many 3.4L 996's club racing...cup cars make up most of hte new bodystyle 911s i see. i can see my car headed towards track only use, but i'm sure i'll want to drive it on the street occasionally. the expected response is of course, GT3 seats and tequipment rollcage, but that doesn't really follow the path towards a club racing setup (i'd have to start all over, right?)
:no idea what to do:
09-12-2005, 10:28 PM
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Drifting
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I think the 3.4 996 would make a fine track car, no matter what the air cooled guys think. My car has also proven itself reliable on many a track weekend. Keep in mind a lot of the Grand Am Cup 996s are still 3.4 versions, they have shown themselves to be very reliable. If you really want to make it a track car, build it to the GA Cup specs or PCA club racing specs and you will be fine. Ful roll cage- not tequipment (illegal), racing coil overs, sways, dedicated racing wheels/tires, strip out the interior, open exhaust, some kind of oiling upgrade...etc. Worst case you blow a motor, a new one is a lot less than other options (GT3, air cooled...). There are even parts now available for the transmission. So I think the track future of the early 996 looks good.
09-13-2005, 12:27 AM
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Burning Brakes
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wow, i didn't know that. thanks!
good to see the 3.4l have a future in road racing. what kind of oil system upgrade is available? i hear on sticky tires the motor will lost oil pressure on some high g turns....and sometime along the front straight at TWS because of the banking
good to see the 3.4l have a future in road racing. what kind of oil system upgrade is available? i hear on sticky tires the motor will lost oil pressure on some high g turns....and sometime along the front straight at TWS because of the banking
09-13-2005, 11:01 AM
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Just to clarify, the Grand Am Cup cars are based off the production 996 and are NOT the same as the GT3 Cup cars that run in the Rolex division of Grand Am. The Gt3 is waaay faster than the 996 cars, none the less the 996 have been reliable and relatively competitive. At least until this season, Grand Am is notorious for adjusting the rules to level the playing field so to speak. Right now the Mustangs seem to have the advantage.
As to the oiling issues on the 996, oil starvation is not supposed to be an issue on street or R type tires. But, I have seen fluctuations in oil pressure on certain turns at TWS. The problems are supposed to occur on left handers but on one particularly long right sweeper my pressure will go from 5 to 3 back up to 5. So I think the potential is certainly there. I recently purchased the oiling upgrade from Porsche and plan to install it this winter. Unfortunately you cannot get it from PMNA anymore so I ordered the parts individually from a dealer. Brey-Krause also makes an oil sump kit and baffle for the 996, probably not as good as the Porsche kit but it certainly wont hurt anything.
I wish one of the Grand Am guys would jump in here, as I wonder if they really see this as a problem and what they do about it if anything
As to the oiling issues on the 996, oil starvation is not supposed to be an issue on street or R type tires. But, I have seen fluctuations in oil pressure on certain turns at TWS. The problems are supposed to occur on left handers but on one particularly long right sweeper my pressure will go from 5 to 3 back up to 5. So I think the potential is certainly there. I recently purchased the oiling upgrade from Porsche and plan to install it this winter. Unfortunately you cannot get it from PMNA anymore so I ordered the parts individually from a dealer. Brey-Krause also makes an oil sump kit and baffle for the 996, probably not as good as the Porsche kit but it certainly wont hurt anything.
I wish one of the Grand Am guys would jump in here, as I wonder if they really see this as a problem and what they do about it if anything
09-13-2005, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by penguinking
wow, i didn't know that. thanks!
good to see the 3.4l have a future in road racing. what kind of oil system upgrade is available? i hear on sticky tires the motor will lost oil pressure on some high g turns....and sometime along the front straight at TWS because of the banking
good to see the 3.4l have a future in road racing. what kind of oil system upgrade is available? i hear on sticky tires the motor will lost oil pressure on some high g turns....and sometime along the front straight at TWS because of the banking
eventually i would get a boulevard cruiser like a TT or m3 to replace the 996 as my daily drive. '00-'01 cars are really on the "cheap" side so you'll find more and more people thinking alike. just watch, we will soon see a flood of 996s at the track.
as doug mentioned, the motor is fine but a little insurance won't hurt either. the brey kraus kit is kinda pathetic though. all it does is adds a spacer to your sump pan and it increases volume. doesn't really address scavenging. i am going to do the accusump but just haven't gotten to it, mainly cuz i am not sure where to put it (especially when i get a supercharger
). it's much less expensive than the porsche scavenging mod but no one on the boards have done it yet. not proven on the 996 but it is a proven product.i hope JimB can chime in. he is the poster boy for racing a n/a 996.
09-13-2005, 02:14 PM
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What I really am is a poster child for how not to go club racing in a 996 but I'm happy to share my pain since the story has a happy ending. (check out the results from the blue qualifying/sprint and enduro 1 at the Road America club race http://www.pca.org/pca/clubrace/2005_results/index.htm)
I bought my 996 new in 99 and over the course of a couple of years did many mods that made it into a pretty good street/track car given what was available at the time. I had TRG sways, H&R coilovers, Kenisis wheels, DAS sport roll bar, Recaro SRDs with belts, Fabspeeds, etc, etc. Unfortunately I discovered what Penguin (is that your real name?) is trying to avoid. When I decided to take it club racing everything I had done to the car had to go. I swear I've given friends more discounts on 996 parts than Gert and Suncoast combined.
Anyway, here's the bad news. I really don't think you can move a car towards club racing while keeping it street worthy. I know PCA would like to think that you can but it's pretty hard these days. You'd be nuts to race without a cage and you'd be nuts to have a cage on the street so that's a problem. The seats you race in are beyond horrible to get in and out of on the street. Same thing with suspension. You can't race a street/track setup and you can't street a full race setup. My advice, go buy a nice street Porsche (I choose a 993 cab) and commit your 996 to the track if that's the way you want to go.
More bad news. The 3.4 makes a fine track car but you won't be competitive in C. Even in Grand Am everyone is converting to the 3.6s. That doesn't mean you won't have fun but it's pretty hard to justify putting $20k into a car that isn't competitive. If I were you I would be inclined to find an abused 02+ car and use it as your base.
Good luck and drop me a line if I can be of any help.
Jim
I bought my 996 new in 99 and over the course of a couple of years did many mods that made it into a pretty good street/track car given what was available at the time. I had TRG sways, H&R coilovers, Kenisis wheels, DAS sport roll bar, Recaro SRDs with belts, Fabspeeds, etc, etc. Unfortunately I discovered what Penguin (is that your real name?) is trying to avoid. When I decided to take it club racing everything I had done to the car had to go. I swear I've given friends more discounts on 996 parts than Gert and Suncoast combined.
Anyway, here's the bad news. I really don't think you can move a car towards club racing while keeping it street worthy. I know PCA would like to think that you can but it's pretty hard these days. You'd be nuts to race without a cage and you'd be nuts to have a cage on the street so that's a problem. The seats you race in are beyond horrible to get in and out of on the street. Same thing with suspension. You can't race a street/track setup and you can't street a full race setup. My advice, go buy a nice street Porsche (I choose a 993 cab) and commit your 996 to the track if that's the way you want to go.
More bad news. The 3.4 makes a fine track car but you won't be competitive in C. Even in Grand Am everyone is converting to the 3.6s. That doesn't mean you won't have fun but it's pretty hard to justify putting $20k into a car that isn't competitive. If I were you I would be inclined to find an abused 02+ car and use it as your base.
Good luck and drop me a line if I can be of any help.
Jim
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09-13-2005, 02:43 PM
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on that same path to making the 99' a dedicated track car although with the early boxster prices in Freefall and a PCA classification of F stock this might be the hot/cheap ticket, Plus the boxster spec series is developing in the POC. For the 30-38k you can get for a nice early 996 you can have boxster on the track with all the required gear and safety equipment or at least 10-15K over the price of an early boxster.
What jim says is correct & hopefully the 996 will move down a class in the years to come but who knows.
Also street cars make bad racecars - it's one or the other unfortunitly
Mine is going to pile on the miles for a few years as my daily while i rebuild the Cup car
What jim says is correct & hopefully the 996 will move down a class in the years to come but who knows.
Also street cars make bad racecars - it's one or the other unfortunitly
Mine is going to pile on the miles for a few years as my daily while i rebuild the Cup car
09-13-2005, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Chads996
Agree with Jim 100% !!!!
Chad
Chad
LOL chads996less
didn't event get out on the track before dumping it for an m3 just givn you a hard time bud. 
maybe i should revise my response.
i think the 996 will make a fine DE/track car but if you want to win races you have to drop some coin. actually with ANY car you'll have to drop a lot of bucks to win. even with go-kart 914s you will have to be ready to spend. i guess the trick is to buy one a ready prepped.
you also have to ask yourself if you want to go wheel to wheel in a dual purpose car. if not, stick to DE/TTs, that's my route.
yes "racecars" do not make good street cars, whether it be a 996, 993, 914, 964, 944, m3, miata....
09-13-2005, 03:01 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
Hahaha...yeah...watch the 6'6" jolly green pack himself into his 996 with a helmet on. Funny Stuff!!! 
Carlos:
I agree. The 996 is a GREAT track car. But for club racing I agree with everything Jim said. You will dump MUCHO $$$$ into making one. Best to find one that is already built.
Chad
Carlos:
I agree. The 996 is a GREAT track car. But for club racing I agree with everything Jim said. You will dump MUCHO $$$$ into making one. Best to find one that is already built.
Chad
09-13-2005, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Chads996
Hahaha...yeah...watch the 6'6" jolly green pack himself into his 996 with a helmet on. Funny Stuff!!!
Carlos:
I agree. The 996 is a GREAT track car. But for club racing I agree with everything Jim said. You will dump MUCHO $$$$ into making one. Best to find one that is already built.
Chad
Carlos:
I agree. The 996 is a GREAT track car. But for club racing I agree with everything Jim said. You will dump MUCHO $$$$ into making one. Best to find one that is already built.
Chad
f'ing hilarious!!!!!
ya, i'll defer any of the racing stuff to jim and anyone else who races but i'll keep my comments strictly on the DE/TT side.
09-13-2005, 05:24 PM
#13
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by JimB
What I really am is a poster child for how not to go club racing in a 996 but I'm happy to share my pain since the story has a happy ending. (check out the results from the blue qualifying/sprint and enduro 1 at the Road America club race http://www.pca.org/pca/clubrace/2005_results/index.htm)
I bought my 996 new in 99 and over the course of a couple of years did many mods that made it into a pretty good street/track car given what was available at the time. I had TRG sways, H&R coilovers, Kenisis wheels, DAS sport roll bar, Recaro SRDs with belts, Fabspeeds, etc, etc. Unfortunately I discovered what Penguin (is that your real name?) is trying to avoid. When I decided to take it club racing everything I had done to the car had to go. I swear I've given friends more discounts on 996 parts than Gert and Suncoast combined.
Anyway, here's the bad news. I really don't think you can move a car towards club racing while keeping it street worthy. I know PCA would like to think that you can but it's pretty hard these days. You'd be nuts to race without a cage and you'd be nuts to have a cage on the street so that's a problem. The seats you race in are beyond horrible to get in and out of on the street. Same thing with suspension. You can't race a street/track setup and you can't street a full race setup. My advice, go buy a nice street Porsche (I choose a 993 cab) and commit your 996 to the track if that's the way you want to go.
More bad news. The 3.4 makes a fine track car but you won't be competitive in C. Even in Grand Am everyone is converting to the 3.6s. That doesn't mean you won't have fun but it's pretty hard to justify putting $20k into a car that isn't competitive. If I were you I would be inclined to find an abused 02+ car and use it as your base.
Good luck and drop me a line if I can be of any help.
Jim
I bought my 996 new in 99 and over the course of a couple of years did many mods that made it into a pretty good street/track car given what was available at the time. I had TRG sways, H&R coilovers, Kenisis wheels, DAS sport roll bar, Recaro SRDs with belts, Fabspeeds, etc, etc. Unfortunately I discovered what Penguin (is that your real name?) is trying to avoid. When I decided to take it club racing everything I had done to the car had to go. I swear I've given friends more discounts on 996 parts than Gert and Suncoast combined.
Anyway, here's the bad news. I really don't think you can move a car towards club racing while keeping it street worthy. I know PCA would like to think that you can but it's pretty hard these days. You'd be nuts to race without a cage and you'd be nuts to have a cage on the street so that's a problem. The seats you race in are beyond horrible to get in and out of on the street. Same thing with suspension. You can't race a street/track setup and you can't street a full race setup. My advice, go buy a nice street Porsche (I choose a 993 cab) and commit your 996 to the track if that's the way you want to go.
More bad news. The 3.4 makes a fine track car but you won't be competitive in C. Even in Grand Am everyone is converting to the 3.6s. That doesn't mean you won't have fun but it's pretty hard to justify putting $20k into a car that isn't competitive. If I were you I would be inclined to find an abused 02+ car and use it as your base.
Good luck and drop me a line if I can be of any help.
Jim
09-13-2005, 05:32 PM
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Thanks Ray although my best time was a 2:31.3 and I qualified first and finished first in C in the sprint and qualified second and finished second in C in the enduro. 
Jim
Jim
09-13-2005, 06:04 PM
#15
Ironman 140.6
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Originally Posted by JimB
Thanks Ray although my best time was a 2:31.3 and I qualified first and finished first in C in the sprint and qualified second and finished second in C in the enduro.
Jim
Jim
Congrats on your finish!!