HRE wheels getting banned
06-08-2005, 04:55 PM
#31
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From what I have heard, track wheels should not be powdercoated as they can hide hairline cracks. Track wheels should be anodized. We have used Kinesis wheels on two of our track cars (one ran profesionaly) and we have never had a failure.
06-08-2005, 08:38 PM
#33
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My Porsche tech (the famous two-time LeMans winner) stated that he has seen many, many BBS wheels break under race conditions similar to mine. Peter Stacy of Kinesis stated that he never had this type of failure before, even in race cars.
BTW, Rockitman, it was your car and your Kinesis wheels that I liked the look so much I got my own.
BTW, Rockitman, it was your car and your Kinesis wheels that I liked the look so much I got my own.
06-08-2005, 08:59 PM
#34
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Dell,
As co-organizer of the Lapping Days events, I was quite surprised to see your completely inaccurate, emotional tirade against my handling of a very serious incident at the track this past Saturday.
First, we did not lose "... 2 hours...", we lost exactly 20 minutes. We shut down the track, and Jeff re-scheduled lunch. In case you did not notice, we went hot after lunch 45 minutes earlier than originally scheduled.
Second, we did NOT put on a wheel and drive the car into the paddock. We DID put on MY wheel in order to get the car onto the tow truck bed. Phil's car could not be driven another 10 feet, much less to the paddock.
Third, in your later post, you state we lost three sessions before lunch due to poor organization and a late start. This could not be further from the truth. Drivers were late arriving to the track, and late coming to the drivers meeting. We lost 15 minutes early in the morning, but made it up in the first three warm-up sessions before 10:00 AM.
In the end, Lapping Days has a run group format which changes to "open-track" in the afternoon. I have yet to meet a driver who uses the full 4+ hours of track time. Why you feel the need to come after the organizers and completely mis-represent the facts in a public forum is beyond me.
In the future, if you have issues, please come to me or Jeff directly.
Bob Read
info@lappingdays.com
As co-organizer of the Lapping Days events, I was quite surprised to see your completely inaccurate, emotional tirade against my handling of a very serious incident at the track this past Saturday.
First, we did not lose "... 2 hours...", we lost exactly 20 minutes. We shut down the track, and Jeff re-scheduled lunch. In case you did not notice, we went hot after lunch 45 minutes earlier than originally scheduled.
Second, we did NOT put on a wheel and drive the car into the paddock. We DID put on MY wheel in order to get the car onto the tow truck bed. Phil's car could not be driven another 10 feet, much less to the paddock.
Third, in your later post, you state we lost three sessions before lunch due to poor organization and a late start. This could not be further from the truth. Drivers were late arriving to the track, and late coming to the drivers meeting. We lost 15 minutes early in the morning, but made it up in the first three warm-up sessions before 10:00 AM.
In the end, Lapping Days has a run group format which changes to "open-track" in the afternoon. I have yet to meet a driver who uses the full 4+ hours of track time. Why you feel the need to come after the organizers and completely mis-represent the facts in a public forum is beyond me.
In the future, if you have issues, please come to me or Jeff directly.
Bob Read
info@lappingdays.com
06-08-2005, 09:10 PM
#36
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in case you didn't follow the link, this was part of that post:
"Interesting tid-bit. Talking to IMSA and Viper Racing League sterwards. found HRE's are banned ...in both series due to too many failures. NINE, yes NINE failures in one race weekend Vipers.Apparently the PCA is on their way to banning HRE's as well. The racers have always called them "Fools Fashion" and i thought that was a little rough until I started seeing them fail at track events and how easily they bend and corrode. Then, after Leslie had problems with hers corroding and I spoke with one of the owners, I realized quickly they were WAY out of reality as to strength and design. Wasn't really surprised that they were banned (was at the meeting), but was surprised at ALL the problems reported. Unreal for such an expensive wheel. Apparently tolerances are sooooo poor that the tires often rotate on the wheels themselves as the rims are often slightly too small.
Mike S"
i can accept that wheels will fail, but nine at one event!! i would also be curious as to what sort of qc and ongoing testing goes on at the smaller mfrs compared to the majors like bbs, o.z., speedline, et al.
"Interesting tid-bit. Talking to IMSA and Viper Racing League sterwards. found HRE's are banned ...in both series due to too many failures. NINE, yes NINE failures in one race weekend Vipers.Apparently the PCA is on their way to banning HRE's as well. The racers have always called them "Fools Fashion" and i thought that was a little rough until I started seeing them fail at track events and how easily they bend and corrode. Then, after Leslie had problems with hers corroding and I spoke with one of the owners, I realized quickly they were WAY out of reality as to strength and design. Wasn't really surprised that they were banned (was at the meeting), but was surprised at ALL the problems reported. Unreal for such an expensive wheel. Apparently tolerances are sooooo poor that the tires often rotate on the wheels themselves as the rims are often slightly too small.
Mike S"
i can accept that wheels will fail, but nine at one event!! i would also be curious as to what sort of qc and ongoing testing goes on at the smaller mfrs compared to the majors like bbs, o.z., speedline, et al.
06-08-2005, 11:47 PM
#37
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not very good news since i ordered a set of hre competitions 3 weeks ago.
as far as dells comments, i have to back up bob and phil. we lost very minimal track time as lunch was moved up an hour. also we tried to rectify the problem as quick as we could while maintaining the safety of everyone there and without subjecting phils car to anymore damage. i think if anyone were in the same situation they would not want to have anymore damage to their car either. i understand people want to get as much track time as possible, but at the end of the day i think we had more than enough track time.
just my 2 cents
as far as dells comments, i have to back up bob and phil. we lost very minimal track time as lunch was moved up an hour. also we tried to rectify the problem as quick as we could while maintaining the safety of everyone there and without subjecting phils car to anymore damage. i think if anyone were in the same situation they would not want to have anymore damage to their car either. i understand people want to get as much track time as possible, but at the end of the day i think we had more than enough track time.
just my 2 cents
06-09-2005, 12:02 AM
#38
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Bob, only 2 things I will say and then call it a day.
1. It is EXTREMELY innapropriate to come on to this board and single me out when I never singled you out. I just referred to an event that I was at (no names, etc.). I never referred to you nor your organization. This is something that you can contact me individually and we could discuss it offline (as Phillip and I have already done in a very informative and polite manner). This board is not the place for that.
2. Your facts of the event and mine differ greatly and I am sure (as most would agree) the truth then lies somewhere in the middle. The attendee's and the organizers are going to see the situation from 2 different angles. And DO NOT blow the situation out of context. The unfortunate event that Phillip experienced COULD have been serious and thank God he was ok. I would not classify 100% car damage and 0% driver injury as serious as you did. Potential to be serious? Yes. Was it? No.
And by the way, you DID put a wheel on it to get it onto the flatbed and move it (now you are just playing a game of semantics). Regardless, the situation took longer than it should. When you start 30 minutes late and break for lunch b/c of and accident that eats up 3 sessions of 1.5 hours that equals 2 hours (regarless if you went hot early in the lunch hour)! I never said I lost 2 hours of track time but rather 2 hours of my track day (we were out of the cars for 2 hours). Not being in the car for that period of time (for us in the white group that was from about 11a through after 1p) put a real cramp on the day and just ruined the flow. Put a sour taste in a lot of drivers mouths--but you didn't even address it with the attendee's. I just echoed the sentiment I felt and those of the drivers around me.
We can just agree to disagree. I am surprised though of your lack of professionalism and your lack of etiquette to come on to a board that you have never visited nor support to post and feel the need to explain something that you were never singled out for.
But if you want some advice then I would be happy to offer it:
*Do NOT start an event late b/c drivers get there late. You have now penalized those that arrived on time. For crying out loud, you itinerary says arrive promptly with exclamation points.
*If you publish a schedule, stick to it. Especially when you are charging a fee for a service, you are obligated to provide it and change only at consent of both parties.
Did I have a great time? Yes. Did I feel jipped out of time? No. But I did feel--as I have stated--that the situation was not taken care of well and that put a damper on the flow.
This had nothing to do with lost track time it had to do with lost track day, this had to do with the manner and speed with which is was taken care of.
The best analogy I can give is one those of you that play golf will understand:
your stalled in your round sitting on a tee box about half way through the back nine b/c some idiot feels the need to search for a ball for 15 minutes, finally takes a drop, then take 10 practice swings to just skull it 20 yards again while you sit there watching the whole thing as your start to tighten up.
Put yourself in the drivers shoes and you will understand.
1. It is EXTREMELY innapropriate to come on to this board and single me out when I never singled you out. I just referred to an event that I was at (no names, etc.). I never referred to you nor your organization. This is something that you can contact me individually and we could discuss it offline (as Phillip and I have already done in a very informative and polite manner). This board is not the place for that.
2. Your facts of the event and mine differ greatly and I am sure (as most would agree) the truth then lies somewhere in the middle. The attendee's and the organizers are going to see the situation from 2 different angles. And DO NOT blow the situation out of context. The unfortunate event that Phillip experienced COULD have been serious and thank God he was ok. I would not classify 100% car damage and 0% driver injury as serious as you did. Potential to be serious? Yes. Was it? No.
And by the way, you DID put a wheel on it to get it onto the flatbed and move it (now you are just playing a game of semantics). Regardless, the situation took longer than it should. When you start 30 minutes late and break for lunch b/c of and accident that eats up 3 sessions of 1.5 hours that equals 2 hours (regarless if you went hot early in the lunch hour)! I never said I lost 2 hours of track time but rather 2 hours of my track day (we were out of the cars for 2 hours). Not being in the car for that period of time (for us in the white group that was from about 11a through after 1p) put a real cramp on the day and just ruined the flow. Put a sour taste in a lot of drivers mouths--but you didn't even address it with the attendee's. I just echoed the sentiment I felt and those of the drivers around me.
We can just agree to disagree. I am surprised though of your lack of professionalism and your lack of etiquette to come on to a board that you have never visited nor support to post and feel the need to explain something that you were never singled out for.
But if you want some advice then I would be happy to offer it:
*Do NOT start an event late b/c drivers get there late. You have now penalized those that arrived on time. For crying out loud, you itinerary says arrive promptly with exclamation points.
*If you publish a schedule, stick to it. Especially when you are charging a fee for a service, you are obligated to provide it and change only at consent of both parties.
Did I have a great time? Yes. Did I feel jipped out of time? No. But I did feel--as I have stated--that the situation was not taken care of well and that put a damper on the flow.
This had nothing to do with lost track time it had to do with lost track day, this had to do with the manner and speed with which is was taken care of.
The best analogy I can give is one those of you that play golf will understand:
your stalled in your round sitting on a tee box about half way through the back nine b/c some idiot feels the need to search for a ball for 15 minutes, finally takes a drop, then take 10 practice swings to just skull it 20 yards again while you sit there watching the whole thing as your start to tighten up.
Put yourself in the drivers shoes and you will understand.
06-09-2005, 01:17 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by DJ 996
These wheel failures are very upsetting, I expected a lot more of Kinesis and Fikse. I am sure ANY wheel can and has failed, but I'll stick with OEM or BBS.
how about speedlines? i used to see them on DTM cars, i think. i haven't heard of anything bad about my champion monolites by speedline.
06-09-2005, 01:30 AM
#43
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Just Great (sarcastically)......I just ordered HRE 841R's, and they're VERY expensive.....I've made a 1k deposit......I don't intend to track, but I do intend to drive in a "spirited" manner.......should I cancel?
06-09-2005, 03:21 AM
#44
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This, or these failures are not a result of powdercoating, well not directly. Powdercoat cures at ~375-400F, which should not affect properties or heat treat of aluminum. I will say indirectly it may play a role since powdercoating will hide fractures/inclusions, preventing necessary inspection.
