Screw BFG!!!!
05-16-2005, 01:04 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by gonz911
Ben,
You seem like a reasonable person, however, your friend is not. Perhaps he'll listen to you about keep it civil, otherwise, I'll stand up for those on this forum who more often than not are terrific and informative. You're friend is not.
You seem like a reasonable person, however, your friend is not. Perhaps he'll listen to you about keep it civil, otherwise, I'll stand up for those on this forum who more often than not are terrific and informative. You're friend is not.
He has spent quite a bit of time and money on this issue (neither of which he has in abundance owing to being a student), and is very frustrated. After both venting and sharing his experience here, he was immediately (first response) met with something that had nothing to do with his post (his mentioning of being a law student was likely offered solely to support his claim that he doesn't have the time or money for this tire situation). As a law student, retaliation, arguing, and adversarial type behavior is something that consumes a bunch of time (that mindset and attitude is precisely why I chose a different path half way through law school myself). It snowballed when people started talking about his experience being his fault (he did have 3 defective rear tires after all - regardless of the cupping on the fronts) as a result of him allegedly trying to scrimp on cost (how this is accomplished through buying the most expensive tires available is not yet clear to me). Further, he has spent a crapload of time at the alignment shop (again time not being one of his biggest assets), and is likely (and rightly) having a hard time seeing himself as the problem instead of the victim in this situation. One of the worst things to do when someone is venting about being wronged is to invalidate that wrong by accerting it's their fault. That pisses off anyone. I'm not saying anyones behavior is justified (there is more than one person responsible for this situation IMO) by that of others, but I do see how it happened and how it escalated to the point it did which again I find out of character for SPR. Hopefully everyone (including SPR) can see their part in the situation and learn from it (if not apologize).
I'm sure everyone involved in this thread just let the situation get the best of them.
05-16-2005, 01:21 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by ben in lj
I'm obviously between a rock and a hard place here because SPR is a friend of mine (spent quite a bit of last week with him as a matter of fact), but I think he is acting out of character this evening owing to the situation.
He has spent quite a bit of time and money on this issue (neither of which he has in abundance owing to being a student), and is very frustrated. After both venting and sharing his experience here, he was immediately (first response) met with something that had nothing to do with his post (his mentioning of being a law student was likely offered solely to support his claim that he doesn't have the time or money for this tire situation). As a law student, retaliation, arguing, and adversarial type behavior is something that consumes a bunch of time (that mindset and attitude is precisely why I chose a different path half way through law school myself). It snowballed when people started talking about his experience being his fault (he did have 3 defective rear tires after all - regardless of the cupping on the fronts) as a result of him allegedly trying to scrimp on cost (how this is accomplished through buying the most expensive tires available is not yet clear to me). Further, he has spent a crapload of time at the alignment shop (again time not being one of his biggest assets), and is likely (and rightly) having a hard time seeing himself as the problem instead of the victim in this situation. One of the worst things to do when someone is venting about being wronged is to invalidate that wrong by accerting it's their fault. That pisses off anyone. I'm not saying anyones behavior is justified (there is more than one person responsible for this situation IMO) by that of others, but I do see how it happened and how it escalated to the point it did which again I find out of character for SPR. Hopefully everyone (including SPR) can see their part in the situation and learn from it (if not apologize).
I'm sure everyone involved in this thread just let the situation get the best of them.
He has spent quite a bit of time and money on this issue (neither of which he has in abundance owing to being a student), and is very frustrated. After both venting and sharing his experience here, he was immediately (first response) met with something that had nothing to do with his post (his mentioning of being a law student was likely offered solely to support his claim that he doesn't have the time or money for this tire situation). As a law student, retaliation, arguing, and adversarial type behavior is something that consumes a bunch of time (that mindset and attitude is precisely why I chose a different path half way through law school myself). It snowballed when people started talking about his experience being his fault (he did have 3 defective rear tires after all - regardless of the cupping on the fronts) as a result of him allegedly trying to scrimp on cost (how this is accomplished through buying the most expensive tires available is not yet clear to me). Further, he has spent a crapload of time at the alignment shop (again time not being one of his biggest assets), and is likely (and rightly) having a hard time seeing himself as the problem instead of the victim in this situation. One of the worst things to do when someone is venting about being wronged is to invalidate that wrong by accerting it's their fault. That pisses off anyone. I'm not saying anyones behavior is justified (there is more than one person responsible for this situation IMO) by that of others, but I do see how it happened and how it escalated to the point it did which again I find out of character for SPR. Hopefully everyone (including SPR) can see their part in the situation and learn from it (if not apologize).
I'm sure everyone involved in this thread just let the situation get the best of them.
Once again, moderator......please read this thread, and do the OBVIOUS!!!!!
05-16-2005, 01:26 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by RLandis
Now that was a lucid, leavelheaded, articulate explanation-----except for one thing.......how do you explain the "gay" comment being hurled at a decent, well respected, well liked, gentleman in our community? There IS no explanation which will be accepted......
Once again, moderator......please read this thread, and do the OBVIOUS!!!!!
Once again, moderator......please read this thread, and do the OBVIOUS!!!!!
05-16-2005, 02:40 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by ben in lj
I'm obviously between a rock and a hard place here because SPR is a friend of mine (spent quite a bit of last week with him as a matter of fact), but I think he is acting out of character this evening owing to the situation.
He has spent quite a bit of time and money on this issue (neither of which he has in abundance owing to being a student), and is very frustrated. After both venting and sharing his experience here, he was immediately (first response) met with something that had nothing to do with his post (his mentioning of being a law student was likely offered solely to support his claim that he doesn't have the time or money for this tire situation). As a law student, retaliation, arguing, and adversarial type behavior is something that consumes a bunch of time (that mindset and attitude is precisely why I chose a different path half way through law school myself). It snowballed when people started talking about his experience being his fault (he did have 3 defective rear tires after all - regardless of the cupping on the fronts) as a result of him allegedly trying to scrimp on cost (how this is accomplished through buying the most expensive tires available is not yet clear to me). Further, he has spent a crapload of time at the alignment shop (again time not being one of his biggest assets), and is likely (and rightly) having a hard time seeing himself as the problem instead of the victim in this situation. One of the worst things to do when someone is venting about being wronged is to invalidate that wrong by accerting it's their fault. That pisses off anyone. I'm not saying anyones behavior is justified (there is more than one person responsible for this situation IMO) by that of others, but I do see how it happened and how it escalated to the point it did which again I find out of character for SPR. Hopefully everyone (including SPR) can see their part in the situation and learn from it (if not apologize).
I'm sure everyone involved in this thread just let the situation get the best of them.
He has spent quite a bit of time and money on this issue (neither of which he has in abundance owing to being a student), and is very frustrated. After both venting and sharing his experience here, he was immediately (first response) met with something that had nothing to do with his post (his mentioning of being a law student was likely offered solely to support his claim that he doesn't have the time or money for this tire situation). As a law student, retaliation, arguing, and adversarial type behavior is something that consumes a bunch of time (that mindset and attitude is precisely why I chose a different path half way through law school myself). It snowballed when people started talking about his experience being his fault (he did have 3 defective rear tires after all - regardless of the cupping on the fronts) as a result of him allegedly trying to scrimp on cost (how this is accomplished through buying the most expensive tires available is not yet clear to me). Further, he has spent a crapload of time at the alignment shop (again time not being one of his biggest assets), and is likely (and rightly) having a hard time seeing himself as the problem instead of the victim in this situation. One of the worst things to do when someone is venting about being wronged is to invalidate that wrong by accerting it's their fault. That pisses off anyone. I'm not saying anyones behavior is justified (there is more than one person responsible for this situation IMO) by that of others, but I do see how it happened and how it escalated to the point it did which again I find out of character for SPR. Hopefully everyone (including SPR) can see their part in the situation and learn from it (if not apologize).
I'm sure everyone involved in this thread just let the situation get the best of them.
I think you raise some very good and valid points.
Putting everything said so far in this thread aside I think we all have to respect Rennlist's Charter which appears under the Support forum.
Whether we have read the Charter or not we constructively agree by entrance to these fora to, among other things, not post any material which is knowingly false, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law nor post comments that are inflammatory, fraudulent, libelous, defamatory, racist or demeaning manner.
That being said, perhaps an apology to Lee by SPR would settle this issue down.
Jim
05-16-2005, 08:49 AM
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SPR - What type of BFG tires did you get ? I recent mounted the BFG TWD-K2 and they work great, no problems at all. Sorry to hear that, I also experinced a problem with my AMG and Conti's - Nothing I did seemed to work and no one was going to make it any better also, So I know your pain.
05-16-2005, 06:02 PM
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I'm sorry to hear about your tire problems, however if you spoke to either a Tire Retailer or BFG rep with the same level of restraint and intelligence you've used here, I am not at all surprised you came away with the results you did.
Someone once said you catch more flies with honey. It works and you'd do well to learn that, especially in the practice of law. Go into each case with guns blazing and you'll have a very short and not very noteworthy career. Actually that holds true in almost any industry and its something most people fail to ever learn.
Regards
Someone once said you catch more flies with honey. It works and you'd do well to learn that, especially in the practice of law. Go into each case with guns blazing and you'll have a very short and not very noteworthy career. Actually that holds true in almost any industry and its something most people fail to ever learn.
Regards
05-16-2005, 06:19 PM
#54
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I am puzzled (apart from the unpleasant tone of the posts). Cupping is normally caused by an unbalanced tire or a suspension problem such as loose joints or bad shocks. If the PSS9 is new, it seems unlikely but, manufacturing defects are not limited to tires. Could there be a loose joint or a bad shock? The comment about "the suspension unloading strangely" makes me wonder. Cupping can also be caused by a defective tire, an expect can read the inside of the tire for evidence of belt slippage. It is also common for a tire which has belts moving out of place to be impossible to balance. Often this is the only sure fire proof of a defective tire, i.e., it will not stay balanced. Has every possibility been examined? It would be a shame to buy new tires only to suffer the same problem.
05-16-2005, 09:02 PM
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Can we get back to talking about tires?
Tires are close to a black art (no pun intended)..
Some tires will cup with certain cars, some don't and it is not
entirely clear what the cause is. I am sure if you did a careful
analysis you will find that certain tire parameters are simply
not suited for certain car/suspension set ups. The big problem is
that many of these tire parameters are hard
to reverse engineer.
For example, if you look at the tire tread you will see that
the pattern changes slightly in size as you rotate the tire.
You will also see repetitions of the pattern. These are all
measures to reduce tire drone and vibrations.
I hate to revert to generalities, but BFG tires are or were notorious
for being hard to balance, and not always perfectly round.
I generally avoid them, as I do most BadYear tires.
What the original poster should do about his tires?
Write a letter of complaint to BFG and where the tires were
bought, with documented proof, and hope something comes out of it.
Chances are they'll blame your car, like what they have been doing.
I have had similar issues, and tire rack was willing to give me a
pro-rated discount on another set of tires.
If that all fails, take a couple of DE and a-x events, have lots of
fun and buy new tires.
Jan
Some tires will cup with certain cars, some don't and it is not
entirely clear what the cause is. I am sure if you did a careful
analysis you will find that certain tire parameters are simply
not suited for certain car/suspension set ups. The big problem is
that many of these tire parameters are hard
to reverse engineer.
For example, if you look at the tire tread you will see that
the pattern changes slightly in size as you rotate the tire.
You will also see repetitions of the pattern. These are all
measures to reduce tire drone and vibrations.
I hate to revert to generalities, but BFG tires are or were notorious
for being hard to balance, and not always perfectly round.
I generally avoid them, as I do most BadYear tires.
What the original poster should do about his tires?
Write a letter of complaint to BFG and where the tires were
bought, with documented proof, and hope something comes out of it.
Chances are they'll blame your car, like what they have been doing.
I have had similar issues, and tire rack was willing to give me a
pro-rated discount on another set of tires.
If that all fails, take a couple of DE and a-x events, have lots of
fun and buy new tires.
Jan
05-16-2005, 09:31 PM
#57
Drifting
Thread Starter
Hey Bbailey,
Why do people assume that I would merely blow up at someone when I want something from them? Again, how is that going to be productive?
Of course I was very diplomatic in all respects at first with both the BFG rep as well as the distributor examining the tires. Unfortuntately it was for naught, and I then went up the chain at BFG and started to be more persuasive again to no avail.
Thanks FlashingBlade. I basically have done the aforementioned to no avail, unfortunately. I then went to the canyons and beat on the tires, only to have them become out of balance! What a waste! I am going to have the alignment rechecked by another shop, and probably will replace them afterward.
I know this topic has obviously gone on to far and beyond but a few points. I was extremely upset when I posted after getting the door shut on me. I actually could have lied ot the discount tire guy when I was on the phone with the BFG rep., as the manager asked if he was authorized to replace the tires, but I did not.
The comment about me being a student on loans with a P car is also irritating and I admit that people may take it the wrong way instead of taking someone down a peg as a low blow equal to the tangental comment direct at me instead of furthering the post. Further, the comment meant to assail my character poured fuel on the fire. Eveything was taken out of context by these people and assumptions were made and built upon. I think some people sit on this forum just to insight just this behavior and the response that might follow, just as a tangental comment or character prodding will result. I always try and help people on this forum as my posts hopefully reflect and rarely do I find it necessary to reply to insults. What I think is most interesting is that everyone jumped on the bandwagon to slam me instead of actually consider other members behaviours and motivations, and give reflection on the context in which I made my comment in jest. If people thought I meant it in the literal sense I assuaged that notion by further comment. Obviously people wanted an effegy and they created a falsehood. Simular comments have been made with neither the scrutiny nor the consideration of motivation and context in which they were made. For those that chose to comment on my problem thanks, all others they need lighten up.
Why do people assume that I would merely blow up at someone when I want something from them? Again, how is that going to be productive?
Of course I was very diplomatic in all respects at first with both the BFG rep as well as the distributor examining the tires. Unfortuntately it was for naught, and I then went up the chain at BFG and started to be more persuasive again to no avail.
Thanks FlashingBlade. I basically have done the aforementioned to no avail, unfortunately. I then went to the canyons and beat on the tires, only to have them become out of balance! What a waste! I am going to have the alignment rechecked by another shop, and probably will replace them afterward.
I know this topic has obviously gone on to far and beyond but a few points. I was extremely upset when I posted after getting the door shut on me. I actually could have lied ot the discount tire guy when I was on the phone with the BFG rep., as the manager asked if he was authorized to replace the tires, but I did not.
The comment about me being a student on loans with a P car is also irritating and I admit that people may take it the wrong way instead of taking someone down a peg as a low blow equal to the tangental comment direct at me instead of furthering the post. Further, the comment meant to assail my character poured fuel on the fire. Eveything was taken out of context by these people and assumptions were made and built upon. I think some people sit on this forum just to insight just this behavior and the response that might follow, just as a tangental comment or character prodding will result. I always try and help people on this forum as my posts hopefully reflect and rarely do I find it necessary to reply to insults. What I think is most interesting is that everyone jumped on the bandwagon to slam me instead of actually consider other members behaviours and motivations, and give reflection on the context in which I made my comment in jest. If people thought I meant it in the literal sense I assuaged that notion by further comment. Obviously people wanted an effegy and they created a falsehood. Simular comments have been made with neither the scrutiny nor the consideration of motivation and context in which they were made. For those that chose to comment on my problem thanks, all others they need lighten up.
Last edited by SPR; 05-16-2005 at 10:37 PM.
05-17-2005, 02:27 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by RLandis
Moderator....I've never asked this before, but I bet I'll be supported......why don't you ban the creator of this thread.....his biggest input so far has been to insult some respected, well liked members here.....please don't tell me to block him......I'm asking you to DUMP him!!!
Just wanted to let you know that the same BFG thread appeared over in the RennTech forum with pretty much the same FLAME intensity. The moderator closed the thread with the comment below:
Best...
Jim
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BFG Topic, Discussion on BFG Tires and Related
Thread deleted becuase of language and because it was getting a bit personal. Sorry about that. If you want to stay on topic w/o the language and personal references you can start here again.
05-17-2005, 02:07 PM
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I believe the "flame war" was over you referring to a well respected member of the Board as "gay" in a public forum, something for which you have yet to apologize. Once you made that reference, I, for one, lost interest in your problems with BFG. From your recent post, it is abundantly clear that you still don't "get it".