Midnight Rider

I was told on a 993, just springs would be a bad idea, and since the stock shocks would be shot at 50k, coilovers ($3k+) were onlyway to go. Is this the same with 996s, or can I just go with lowering springs for 400 bucks or so and be done with it? Not looking for adjustability, just a lower stance.

Chads996

Yes, but not recommended. You should match the dampers with the springs. Why you ask? The lowered sport springs (does not matter the brand) reduce the travel of the shock absorber. Thus making the shock less effective. As a result, the car will have a bounciness. Great example, the Ricer doods that chop their springs. You know...the Honda Accord that you have seem "bouncing" over bridge expansion joints.

Hope this helps.

Chad

Bford100

I had H&R springs installed on my '02 coupe over a year ago and have retained the stock shocks. The ride is much more tight, and precise. The look is much better as the wheels fill the wells nicely, and the car doesn't look too low or "slammed". I had the car aligned and corner balanced when the springs were installed. Yes, the ride is a bit "bouncier" but only on areas of road that are either under construction, or damaged. Other than that, 90% of the time wherever I drive in So. Calif., the ride is ok by me.

Chads996

Be prepared to replace them soon. The stock dampers will begin to wear rapidly. Just FYI.

Chad

gonz911

Chad, Not quite. I have a '99 996 C2 and I recently had installed H&R springs with the original shocks and I have approximately 52,000 miles on the car. The car actually handles better and does not have the "bounciness" you refer to. In fact it has a terrific ride and the cornering on the car is way better than before. I was warned by many (you included) to replace the shocks, yet I checked with my wrench as well as a service manager at a Porsche dealer and all said it wouldn't be an issue. When I have to replace the shocks I'd have to do it with or without the H&Rs. No issues at all.

Midnight Rider -- check this forum further and you'll see similar responses. Check past threads too. It provides a great ride height!

bumble996

I just recently switched from TechArt Springs to PSS9 full coilovers....

Short answer to your question - Yes, but if you have over 20K on your shocks, I would suggest replacing both while you're at it.

I had the TechArts installed w/3K miles on my car, drove it for about 8 months and enjoyed the lowered stance and somewhat stiffer ride. I didn't like the feel of "floatiness" at high speeds (120+) - I experienced this with the stock springs as well, but seemed to be more evident with the TechArt springs. Best bang for the buck though - you get a lowered stance and a slight improvement (depending upon what you're trying to do) in handling. Again, if you have over 20K on your shocks, I'd suggest doing both shocks and springs.

2 weeks ago I had the PSS9's put in and it's a night and day difference. (Both in handling and pocketbook LOL) - I don't track the car (yet) but I do enjoy the occasional spirited run on the weekend or stoplight to stoplight encounter. The car feels so much better now, esp. at high speeds - not to mention I love the height...

If you can drop the 2K+ on a coilover set, go for it, otherwise - a nice H&R cupkit setup would do the job as well....

Chads996

You are a lucky one. I stand corrected. Porsche's 996 repair manual even mentions the different dampers for the appropriate springs in the suspension section. Maybe all those suspensions I have installed and tuned over the years have been for not.

Take my advice as you like. I trust my own hands before I trust a service manager. Just my opinion, no offense intended.

Chad

Chads996

bumble, that's a kick butt photo. I'm going to make you a sig.

Chad

bullbear

That's one beautiful SY 996... I saw it first over at 6speed. I want to do the intake pieces and the lip spoiler you have. How do the intake pieces attach to the bumper? Easy enough for DIY?

nv1271

Chad is right. I tried the Eibach springs with the stock shocks. The car was improved in the original "dive" when you corner or brake, but it was bouncing a lot. You can try lowering springs with shocks (i.e Eibach with Bilstein sport that I have) much improved over stock but pretty harsh ride. Good luck

gonz911

Perhaps it's the Eibachs that make cars bounce (?), or maybe it's just that at 52k my shocks just haven't worn yet but I get no more bounce with my car with the H&Rs with stock shocks than I had with the stock springs. I have to admit I was very concerned about doing this without replacing the shocks but several on this forum and 6speed had similar experiences. Chad, I'm just hoping my decision to not doing it doesn't come back to haunt me too soon. I'm certain I'll be doing it sometime in the future. No offense intended nor taken by me. You've more often than not had great advice.

Quite frankly, if my car bounced like that described I wouldn't drive it that way.



Perhaps you should solicit advice from those like me who have used H&Rs with stock shocks instead

nv1271

Maybe the Eibachs were the problem with the stock shocks. Once I put the Bilstein sports with the Eibachs, no problem.

bet

Everyone’s opinion on this is going to be different. So much of it is personal ride preference and experiences with the various set ups. What may be bouncy and uncontrolled to me may be firm tight and more connected to someone else. Additionally, there are very few of us who have experiences with all the set ups thus comparison are difficult. Personally I would value the opinion of someone who has extensive experience with all the setups I was comparing, but unfortunately, it is much more likely you are going to find people who have experience with 1-2 setups such as the stock set up and then one alternative. Thus their perspective of what is better is skewed by their experiences.

For example, on my former 993, I purchased the car with H&R springs and factory shocks. The ride felt fine to me and in fact better than the factory set ups of a couple of club member’s cars I had driven, however, I lost a shock and instead of replacing 1-2 dampers I elected to change the set up completely to PSS-9 coilovers. It was a night and day difference. What I thought was a fine ride was in fact under dampened, sloppy and bouncy in comparison to what the PSS-9’s offered. However, I would have never known this without the direct experience and comparison of the coilovers on the same car and roads.

The best advise is drive cars with the various set ups, if possible, and decide what you like better. The safe choice is change the springs and dampers at the same to something that is matched for each other. However, there are many on here that think the spring only route is just fine. Even in the world of the 993’s there are still those that feel the H&R springs with the factory suspension is fine.

Chads996

Thanks for the compliment gonz... Though, please note that the "Accord bounce" description was an over emphasis to get my point across. I have been in 996's with fried shocks and it still wasn't too bad.

Passing on the knowledge is a great way to learn your car.

Technically speaking, here's the deal. Any suspension is like a finely tuned musical instrument if setup properly. However, given the choices out there, it is easier to screw up a suspension than make it better. Trust me, I have been there very close to a wall at a test and tune session. Can be down right scary. So I caution you when getting suspension work. Do it right the first time.

The basics:

Springs - Springs are the primary parts of the energy absorbtion on the car. Springs absorb and store road shock caused by bumps, dips, cracks, and so forth. They absorb this shock by either compressing or extending. When a car's wheel goes over a bump and gets pushed upward, the spring absorbs that additional load, keeps the road shock from reaching the chassis, and makes sure the tire maintains contact with the pavement.

How much a spring compresses or extends is determined by its "spring rate." Spring rate is measured in pounds per inch of deflection; for example, 100 pounds per inch. So, say a load of 200 pounds is applied, the spring will deflect 2 inches. Spring rate comes from various factors. For a coil spring, this includes the number of active coils, the diameter of the coils, and the diameter of the spring wire. The fewer coils a spring has, the higher the spring rate it will have.

Shocks/Struts - Shocks, in the most basic sense, provide resistance to force in either compression or extension (rebound) travel.* Its job is to “dampen” irregularities or unwanted oscillations.* Bumps result in shaft movements that need to be controlled and shock absorber performance is a key element in the overall control factor.

Our cars:

Stiffer dampers combined with stock springs are a good improvement. This improvement is based upon the dampening (compression and rebound) rates on the shocks. Since the springs' rate of compression is constant and the OE springs have reduced rates of compression (as compared to RoW, M030, Lowering, & aftermarket sports springs), the dampers have no trouble absorbing and controling the bumps and vibrations.

However, if you now perform the opposite and only replace the springs rather than the dampers, different story. By increasing the spring rates (the springs' rate of compression) you are essentially increasing the workload on the dampers. While failure may not occur right away, it will eventually. The stock dampers on the 996 have been developed to work with the OE springs that are partnered with them. By replacing the springs with matched dampers, the ride will not have "bounce" and will absorb and control very movement. When it is finally setup perfectly...the result is INCREDIBLE. The grip and feeling of control will be unmatched.

My personal preferences:

I prefer a little more oversteer in my track cars. However, street cars should retain some understeer. (just my opinion). Thus, I am hoping my 996 will be just about there. After every suspension tune I perform, I go to an abandoned parking lot and practice skid pad circles to see what the car will do. Understeer or oversteer.

My favorite shocks: Koni race and sport adjustables. (unfortunately, they do not make them for the 996.) Please note, Koni Sports are only good to 500# springs. After that, step up and get the Race setup with bound and rebound adjustbility. Bilsteins are next on the list. I have chosen Sports to help with the shorter distance of compression /rebound with my H&R Sports lowering springs.

My favorite springs: I prefer aftermarket suspension sets to factory. Why you ask? Because this is all these companys do. Suspensions. And many times, the factories themselves contact them for feedback and components. I like them because, I can order springs to the rates I desire, thus my choice is H&R or Eibach. I had 3 custom sets of 2.5" race springs on my last car. Those of you with coilovers have this ability to tune the car to your taste.

So with all this mumbo jumbo on the page...good luck with your decision. And if you wish to perform this task yourself, a note of caution:

I have been working on my own cars for sometime. If you have trouble changing a light bulb, tying your shoes, or even filling the car with gas, consult your local professional Porsche shop.

Good luck. I hope this helps.

Chad

Midnight Rider

Wow!! Thanks for the detailed analysis. I had the coilovers on my 993, thanks to the PO, and it was an incredible ride for how low it was. Now I understand why. I guess you get what you pay for. Thanks again!!!