996 cab VS. m3 cab anyone with experience?
#16
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Originally Posted by Benjamin Choi
M3 cab is a much better translation than the carrera cab. carrera cab has got to be the most disproportionate car out there on the road today.
Most threads that I've read are quite the opposite.
#17
Consider power to weight ratio also.
996 Cab 3120/320=9.75
M3 Cab 3780/333=11.35
How the M3 can run 0-60 in 4.9 is beyond me. Must be a stickly road surface below sea level.
M3 cab weighs 300lb more than M3 coupe. 996 cab is only 90lb more than coupe. Another example there is no substitute.
996 Cab 3120/320=9.75
M3 Cab 3780/333=11.35
How the M3 can run 0-60 in 4.9 is beyond me. Must be a stickly road surface below sea level.
M3 cab weighs 300lb more than M3 coupe. 996 cab is only 90lb more than coupe. Another example there is no substitute.
#18
Originally Posted by Benjamin Choi
I'd have more faithin E46 M3 reliability than 996 N/A power.. at least BMW steps up to the plate and offers an extended warranty. what's porsche done so far with RMS.
you guys are a crack up.
both cars are heavy and offer lighter and better performing coupes. if you're going convertible, always know you sacrificed performance for drop top fun.
M3 cab is a much better translation than the carrera cab. carrera cab has got to be the most disproportionate car out there on the road today.
you guys are a crack up.
both cars are heavy and offer lighter and better performing coupes. if you're going convertible, always know you sacrificed performance for drop top fun.
M3 cab is a much better translation than the carrera cab. carrera cab has got to be the most disproportionate car out there on the road today.
Don't get me wrong. I really like the M3s, and they probably are a better "value" if you consider price. In my opinion, the M3 is like a teenage girl (legal of course), fast and exciting, but not very smooth. The Porsches are more like a mature woman, they don't feel as fast but they are far, far smoother, which, IMHO, is far more important both on the road and on the track, particularly on the track. Smoothness equals faster lap times. It is nice to play with the teenagers (again, legal of course), but, in the end, give me a woman who knows what she is doing any day of the week.
I agree that the M3 cab makes the transition visually better than the 996 cab, but the M3 cab is an overweight pig. M3 coupe is the only way to go.
Peace to my BMW brethren. I think the Porsche people and BMW people should gang up on the MB people rather than argue amongst ourselves.
#19
DJ,
You are describing weight to power ratio. Power to weight ratio is more like:
996 0.10 HP/LB
M3 0.088 HP/LB
And the M3 cab runs 0-60 in 5.1 sec according to Car & Driver
One M3 advantage is the 8,000 rpm redline. The car does run strong.
You are describing weight to power ratio. Power to weight ratio is more like:
996 0.10 HP/LB
M3 0.088 HP/LB
And the M3 cab runs 0-60 in 5.1 sec according to Car & Driver
One M3 advantage is the 8,000 rpm redline. The car does run strong.
#21
Originally Posted by Shark
DJ,
You are describing weight to power ratio. Power to weight ratio is more like:
996 0.10 HP/LB
M3 0.088 HP/LB
And the M3 cab runs 0-60 in 5.1 sec according to Car & Driver
One M3 advantage is the 8,000 rpm redline. The car does run strong.
You are describing weight to power ratio. Power to weight ratio is more like:
996 0.10 HP/LB
M3 0.088 HP/LB
And the M3 cab runs 0-60 in 5.1 sec according to Car & Driver
One M3 advantage is the 8,000 rpm redline. The car does run strong.
Thanks for the correction. BMW posted 4.9 sec on its site for cab and 4.8 for coupe. I don't know how 300lb difference translated into a 0.1s in 0-60. I think BMW uses its own tested number which probly resulted in trashing the gearbox after the test.
Weight to power ratio for M3 really reveals its weakness esp for the cab. The ratio is a good measure of whether it is pure sports car that is balanced and fun.
#23
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Dave,
The question really isn't "Is the 996 better than the E46 M3?" (the answer is yes).
The question is "Is the 996 $20,000 (give or take) better than the E46 M3?"
For me the answer was yes. I traded an '03 M3 (with SMG) for a 40th Anniversary 996 (both coupes).
Regarding the M3 engine. 3.2 liter inline 6 with 333 hp and 262 ft/lbs (impressive indeed). Yes there was a bearing issue, but all S54 engines were recalled and given a 6 year 100k mile warranty.
Regarding SMG. Contrary to popular belief, there is a significant learning curve with this transmission. Different throttle modulation is required depending on the situation at hand. With practice, the SMG can be shifted much faster and as smooth as any 6 speed manual.
I drove my M3 for almost 2 years and I didn't have a single problem with it. Most bashing of the M3 and SMG comes from people with little or no experience with either.
At the end of the day, I'm very happy I traded the M3 for the 996 (my first P-car). That said, the M3 really is a fantastic car. I wish I could have both.
Good luck with your decision.
Matt
The question really isn't "Is the 996 better than the E46 M3?" (the answer is yes).
The question is "Is the 996 $20,000 (give or take) better than the E46 M3?"
For me the answer was yes. I traded an '03 M3 (with SMG) for a 40th Anniversary 996 (both coupes).
Regarding the M3 engine. 3.2 liter inline 6 with 333 hp and 262 ft/lbs (impressive indeed). Yes there was a bearing issue, but all S54 engines were recalled and given a 6 year 100k mile warranty.
Regarding SMG. Contrary to popular belief, there is a significant learning curve with this transmission. Different throttle modulation is required depending on the situation at hand. With practice, the SMG can be shifted much faster and as smooth as any 6 speed manual.
I drove my M3 for almost 2 years and I didn't have a single problem with it. Most bashing of the M3 and SMG comes from people with little or no experience with either.
At the end of the day, I'm very happy I traded the M3 for the 996 (my first P-car). That said, the M3 really is a fantastic car. I wish I could have both.
Good luck with your decision.
Matt
#24
Originally Posted by MJM
Regarding the M3 engine. 3.2 liter inline 6 with 333 hp and 262 ft/lbs (impressive indeed). Yes there was a bearing issue, but all S54 engines were recalled and given a 6 year 100k mile warranty.
#25
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Originally Posted by TD in DC
I agree with nearly everything you said, but are you certain that all S54 engines were recalled? Unless I am mistaken, my brother-in-law's engine was not recalled. He did receive the 6 year 100k mile warranty and assurances from BMW that they would give him a new engine if his imploded, but I did not think that they actually did any warranty work on the engine.
A quick check on Roadfly or call to the dealer would clarify, however.
#26
I have a M3 cab, but my 996's have been coupes. So I can't make the exact comparison you're looking for, but will make a few observations.
I like the way the M3 drives. It's not as involving as a 911, but still a blast to spend time in. Calling it a "pig" is in no way accurate. It has much better than average rigidity for a convertible, cowl shake (I have the 18" wheels) and rattles are not an issue with mine most of the time (it takes major potholes to upset it). I have the 6 speed (SMG was not available when I got mine) and it's great, but the throws could be a little shorter. Reliability & build quality is better than any of my Porsches and IMO the engine issues are way overblown (similar to RMS). It's a lot more practical and seats 4 comfortably.
It's not a track car, but wasn't designed to be. It's a lively, entertaining street car at a reasonable price that seems to hold its value better than P-cars. I've really enjoyed mine and I'd buy another one. Is it better than a Carrera cab? I have no idea...and that really depends on what your expectations are and what you want to use it for.
I like the way the M3 drives. It's not as involving as a 911, but still a blast to spend time in. Calling it a "pig" is in no way accurate. It has much better than average rigidity for a convertible, cowl shake (I have the 18" wheels) and rattles are not an issue with mine most of the time (it takes major potholes to upset it). I have the 6 speed (SMG was not available when I got mine) and it's great, but the throws could be a little shorter. Reliability & build quality is better than any of my Porsches and IMO the engine issues are way overblown (similar to RMS). It's a lot more practical and seats 4 comfortably.
It's not a track car, but wasn't designed to be. It's a lively, entertaining street car at a reasonable price that seems to hold its value better than P-cars. I've really enjoyed mine and I'd buy another one. Is it better than a Carrera cab? I have no idea...and that really depends on what your expectations are and what you want to use it for.
#27
Originally Posted by Holger B
Calling it a "pig" is in no way accurate.
In any event, an M3 convertible is a pig, an adorable pig, but a pig nonetheless. That would not keep me from considering it as a car, but only if I already had a different sports car. You have the ideal sports car already, so I can easily imagine why you would want an M3 convertible in your stable.
If you wonder why I act like I know so much about the M3 convertible, it is because I came very, very close to buying one in 2002. I chose the less practical and I bought a Boxster S instead. Completely different experience.
Originally Posted by Holger B
It's not a track car, but wasn't designed to be.
Originally Posted by Holger B
It's a lively, entertaining street car at a reasonable price that seems to hold its value better than P-cars. I've really enjoyed mine and I'd buy another one. Is it better than a Carrera cab? I have no idea...and that really depends on what your expectations are and what you want to use it for..
#28
I've driven plenty of cars that I thought were pigs. I don't feel that way about the M3 convertible and I've never heard anyone else say that. I guess we just have different perspectives & expectations.
#29
Originally Posted by Holger B
I've driven plenty of cars that I thought were pigs. I don't feel that way about the M3 convertible and I've never heard anyone else say that. I guess we just have different perspectives & expectations.
Keep in mind that I am talking solely about weight -- nothing else. My premise is that the M3 Convertible is unnecessarily heavy. That's it. I mean, seriously, don't you agree that the M3 Convertible is a relatively, and arguably unnecessarily, heavy car for how it is marketed? Nonetheless, I really like it.
As I said before, many call the late generation 911s porky. Since you have a GT3, you have the exception, not the rule. If the late model 911s can be called porky, then what is an M3 cab?
Also, keep in mind that I was responding to someone who was making it sound like Porsche owners were attacking M3s solely on illogical grounds.
The bottom line is that the M3 cab is a fine automobile provided that you know what it is and what it was designed to do when you buy it. If you are buying it to be a sports car (if that means a car you take to the track), then you are likely to be disappointed. Instead, it is a sporty car that is loads of fun to drive on the street. Can we at least agree on that?
#30
Agreed that we both like it. We just don't agree on all the adjectives. It's all good.