Sway Bar Links FINISHED!
01-25-2005, 05:46 PM
#16
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BTW here is the picture of the links after testing. On the car for 1 month. Drove to LA, Vegas, 1 full Track Race, Heavy Rain, daily drive 15 miles.
01-25-2005, 06:31 PM
#17
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Heim joint is just a trade / brand name, much like Kleenex facial tissues. The proper industry term is "spherical bearing". These certainly are bearings, they are in the catagory of plain bearings.
Spherical bearings are not sealed. Water and dirt do get in and will accelerate wear of the part. In fact the life of the bearing is dictated much more by environment and contamination than it is by cycles or loads.
Spherical bearings can be sealed, but this employs an external seal typically made of rubber extending from the bearing housing to the shaft. Think of a typcial OEM ball joint, this is a sealed spherical bearing.
Your product is not sealed.
I don't have any good pics of my targa. Here is a couple of my coupe.
Spherical bearings are not sealed. Water and dirt do get in and will accelerate wear of the part. In fact the life of the bearing is dictated much more by environment and contamination than it is by cycles or loads.
Spherical bearings can be sealed, but this employs an external seal typically made of rubber extending from the bearing housing to the shaft. Think of a typcial OEM ball joint, this is a sealed spherical bearing.
Your product is not sealed.
I don't have any good pics of my targa. Here is a couple of my coupe.
01-25-2005, 06:54 PM
#18
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Nice pics Chuck!
I will leave the debate in your favor.
For those that have a 996 C2 or C4 and interested in the product, we do offer a 90 day warranty against manufacturer defects on the product. I can assure all users as well, from years of racing with other cars and using this product and components on other cars, that these monoballs will not fall apart, wear out, or cause you grief or we will replace them. We would be the ones to know, we use them, test them, and made them.
I will leave the debate in your favor.
For those that have a 996 C2 or C4 and interested in the product, we do offer a 90 day warranty against manufacturer defects on the product. I can assure all users as well, from years of racing with other cars and using this product and components on other cars, that these monoballs will not fall apart, wear out, or cause you grief or we will replace them. We would be the ones to know, we use them, test them, and made them.
01-25-2005, 06:57 PM
#19
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Chuck...these swaybars and swaybar links advertised on your site use the same type of design for the older 911..??? Why so hard on our design?
http://www.elephantracing.com/images...rs/swaybar.gif
http://www.elephantracing.com/images...rs/swaybar.gif
01-25-2005, 07:18 PM
#20
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I'm not being hard on the design. I'm being hard on the mis-statement of the feature. An acknowledgement and correction of the error would have silenced me after my first post.
In fairness to your product, unsealed spherical bearings are commonly used in this application.
In fairness to your product, unsealed spherical bearings are commonly used in this application.
Last edited by Elephant Chuck; 01-25-2005 at 07:57 PM.
01-26-2005, 12:19 AM
#22
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ok vivid
i might bite - but your using them with GT-3 sway bars currently?
what is the weight (grams) of these?
what is the exact length of your bits?
my toss up is - cut and re-weld a stock set -15mm or these - the stock set is cheap, proper welding is cheap. The weight might be less (but were talking small amouts here)
dunno - this is not Linton quality stuff. But an important piece none the less.
If bob linton made these out of Ti (or any other material) - i would pay a ot more than $180 for them b/c i would know about the little stuff.
<edit>dyslexia sucks </edit>
i might bite - but your using them with GT-3 sway bars currently?
what is the weight (grams) of these?
what is the exact length of your bits?
my toss up is - cut and re-weld a stock set -15mm or these - the stock set is cheap, proper welding is cheap. The weight might be less (but were talking small amouts here)
dunno - this is not Linton quality stuff. But an important piece none the less.
If bob linton made these out of Ti (or any other material) - i would pay a ot more than $180 for them b/c i would know about the little stuff.
<edit>dyslexia sucks </edit>
01-26-2005, 01:34 PM
#23
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Rob...
Titanium would be extreme overkill for these. Unlike springs or control arms, these are not unsprung weight. Aluminum is actually very light and strong for this purpose. There is NO WAY you can bend these. I dont have a scale to weight here...but side by side the Aluminum ones are probably slightly lighter. The focus is on strength rather then weight. If it was a pulley I can see the point. I must be a newb as I dont know who Linton is...
I have run these on the stock sways and the H&R sways. Correct me if I am wrong, but the GT3 sways are the same fitment, just larger diameter? If so they will fit.
Titanium would be extreme overkill for these. Unlike springs or control arms, these are not unsprung weight. Aluminum is actually very light and strong for this purpose. There is NO WAY you can bend these. I dont have a scale to weight here...but side by side the Aluminum ones are probably slightly lighter. The focus is on strength rather then weight. If it was a pulley I can see the point. I must be a newb as I dont know who Linton is...
I have run these on the stock sways and the H&R sways. Correct me if I am wrong, but the GT3 sways are the same fitment, just larger diameter? If so they will fit.
01-26-2005, 01:42 PM
#25
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Ti - would be appropiate for these parts when weight is a consideration (btw - springs and control arms are sprung weight). for this part the strength that is required is linear not torsenal that is the secondary consideration - it transfers force to the sway bar in a linear manner.
sway bars are un-sprung weight since they are not suspened directly by the suspension. so strenght ->light weight are primarly factors
Do a seach for R.D. Linton in the 964 forum and you will see what i mean about his parts (which are not for sale btw.)
sway bars are un-sprung weight since they are not suspened directly by the suspension. so strenght ->light weight are primarly factors
Do a seach for R.D. Linton in the 964 forum and you will see what i mean about his parts (which are not for sale btw.)
01-26-2005, 01:45 PM
#26
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I still haven't seen any data showing there's a *need* for these. do you really think Porsche would design swaybar links that bend? Do you think they'd design a specific part for the GT3 and not have it be engineered correctly?
they're shiny and pretty, but what's the point? You just said these are sprung weight (although I'm not actually sure about this), so a few ounces isn't going to matter. You'd be better off removing your sunvisors -- at least the weight is up high
The link posted above from elephant racing shows a completely different animal, IMO. These are infinitely adjustable race sways, with race hardware. Also note that race hardware isn't always the best for the street. Unsealed bearings are going to get grit in them, wear, get loose and start making noise over time. There's a good reason Porsche doesn't use them in their street cars.
they're shiny and pretty, but what's the point? You just said these are sprung weight (although I'm not actually sure about this), so a few ounces isn't going to matter. You'd be better off removing your sunvisors -- at least the weight is up high
The link posted above from elephant racing shows a completely different animal, IMO. These are infinitely adjustable race sways, with race hardware. Also note that race hardware isn't always the best for the street. Unsealed bearings are going to get grit in them, wear, get loose and start making noise over time. There's a good reason Porsche doesn't use them in their street cars.
01-26-2005, 01:54 PM
#27
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I am sorry I meant SPRUNG! Not unsprung Quick timing, not enough thinking...
Do you think Subaru, Mitsubishi, BMW, or anyone else would engineer a car to have parts bend? The answer is yes cause we are talking about racing parts. Have I seen these thin metal links bend, yes... Do the sway bar links need to be adjustable like the Elephant Racing ones...not on the 996 as there is no room for it with the axles. The adjustability is on the sway bars, that is why you buy adjustable sway bars from H&R or such.
If manufacturers made everything perfect, there would not be a Billiondollar aftermarket industry. Bottomline is things can be improved, but somethings are no for everyone. I have made the point of the advantages of these...those that feel if it is not Porsche then it does not belong...I am sorry, look at companies like Turner Motorsports that provide many aftermarket racing components for BMW. Look at Hotchkis who makes many sway bars, sway bar links, and such for many high end performance cars. Like I have said over and over again. These are the same factory links that PORSCHE uses that you can find on BMW, Subaru, Mitsubishi, VW, and more. And these are the same type of links that can fail, have failed, and can be improved on.
Quick timing, not enough thinking...Do you think Subaru, Mitsubishi, BMW, or anyone else would engineer a car to have parts bend? The answer is yes cause we are talking about racing parts. Have I seen these thin metal links bend, yes... Do the sway bar links need to be adjustable like the Elephant Racing ones...not on the 996 as there is no room for it with the axles. The adjustability is on the sway bars, that is why you buy adjustable sway bars from H&R or such.
If manufacturers made everything perfect, there would not be a Billiondollar aftermarket industry. Bottomline is things can be improved, but somethings are no for everyone. I have made the point of the advantages of these...those that feel if it is not Porsche then it does not belong...I am sorry, look at companies like Turner Motorsports that provide many aftermarket racing components for BMW. Look at Hotchkis who makes many sway bars, sway bar links, and such for many high end performance cars. Like I have said over and over again. These are the same factory links that PORSCHE uses that you can find on BMW, Subaru, Mitsubishi, VW, and more. And these are the same type of links that can fail, have failed, and can be improved on.
01-26-2005, 01:54 PM
#28
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not trying to bust your chops..
996 GT-3 stabilizer (sway bar) 996.333.701.90 (1999)
Link - 996.333.069.90
normal C2
stabilizer (1999) 996.333.701.12
Link 996.333.069.02
the differences are
GT-3 is thicker and has 3 adjsutment holes
the 996 has a single link attachment hole.
From the pictures of your car it is running a GT-3 rear sway bar b/c of the 3 adjsutment holes.
the gt-3 link is 15mm shorter i believe
i'm just trying to figure out what we have here and if it will work for the GT-3 bars in the rear - i think the answer is yes.
my second question is it worth it over the stock part - i.e. lighter stiffer, what are the advanatages.
996 GT-3 stabilizer (sway bar) 996.333.701.90 (1999)
Link - 996.333.069.90
normal C2
stabilizer (1999) 996.333.701.12
Link 996.333.069.02
the differences are
GT-3 is thicker and has 3 adjsutment holes
the 996 has a single link attachment hole.
From the pictures of your car it is running a GT-3 rear sway bar b/c of the 3 adjsutment holes.
the gt-3 link is 15mm shorter i believe
i'm just trying to figure out what we have here and if it will work for the GT-3 bars in the rear - i think the answer is yes.
my second question is it worth it over the stock part - i.e. lighter stiffer, what are the advanatages.
01-26-2005, 02:50 PM
#29
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What do you mean "we're talking about racing parts"? Are you saying that Porsche's GT3, when used on the track, is held back in any way by its swaybar endlinks? If so, do you have any data to back this up? I'd love to see it. Stressed parts, blown bearings, video of the links bending, anything would be useful.
Just because these parts sell well for Subaru, Mitsu, VW, BMW, etc, doesn't mean that there's a need for them on a 996 unless you can tell me that Porsche is using *exactly* the same links as these makers (which you seem to imply above), and therefore experiences on other platforms are directly transferrable to the 996.
Unlike Rob, I actually am trying to bust your chops You're selling parts under the guise they're going to provide some performance benefit. I'd like to see data other than "look at how big the aftermarket industry is" to back up the claim. I'd expect that from any vendor, so I'm not singling you out.
I was up till 2am with a screaming infant last night, so today I'm an *** on the internet
Just because these parts sell well for Subaru, Mitsu, VW, BMW, etc, doesn't mean that there's a need for them on a 996 unless you can tell me that Porsche is using *exactly* the same links as these makers (which you seem to imply above), and therefore experiences on other platforms are directly transferrable to the 996.
Unlike Rob, I actually am trying to bust your chops
You're selling parts under the guise they're going to provide some performance benefit. I'd like to see data other than "look at how big the aftermarket industry is" to back up the claim. I'd expect that from any vendor, so I'm not singling you out.I was up till 2am with a screaming infant last night, so today I'm an *** on the internet
01-26-2005, 04:09 PM
#30
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I have all smiles for you
Rarely will you find data on products other then about the product. Comparison charts, video, and what not is not found.
Yes the 996 links I have taken off are the same design links as used on the front and rear of a Subaru STI, the front of a BMW M3, the front of a VW R32, and many more. Yes we sell aftermarket links for these cars too. Yes they work. The only thing holding anyone back on the track is the driver...but to assist the driver in becoming a better driver in a better car, there are aftermarket parts which improve performance.
I would love to forum argue, but phone debates are better plus I got alot to do today. How about I send you a set for a slutty price, you use them, and enjoy them...
Thanks!
Rarely will you find data on products other then about the product. Comparison charts, video, and what not is not found.
Yes the 996 links I have taken off are the same design links as used on the front and rear of a Subaru STI, the front of a BMW M3, the front of a VW R32, and many more. Yes we sell aftermarket links for these cars too. Yes they work. The only thing holding anyone back on the track is the driver...but to assist the driver in becoming a better driver in a better car, there are aftermarket parts which improve performance.
I would love to forum argue, but phone debates are better
plus I got alot to do today. How about I send you a set for a slutty price, you use them, and enjoy them...Thanks!