MS911

Hi All,

I'm a former 964 C2 owner and in the market for a 996. I am keen on a Tiptronic 992 C4 Coupe as they came with PSM as standard.

In calling my local Porsche Dealer (Melbourne, Australia) and asking about stock availability he said that not many C4's were sold into the Aussie market as they were about $15K more expensive and many new purchasers could not justify the extra $$$ for "so small a gain"

Until the Cayennes hit the market, only about 400 new Porsches were sold yearly here downunder. (It's now around 800 cars/year)

I note that PSM is raved about in the 996 factory book and I'm keen to have not only the better handling of the 996 but also a "safety net" in case I do "hit that hairpin too fast with wet leaves on the road"

I note that the dealer menu for 996's shows PSM as a $2500 option so I presume that it can be retro fitted.

My Questions are:

* Is all the PSM stuff already in the car ex-factory, needing only activating by the dealer or is it a "black box" attachment that interfaces with the cars computer?

* Has anybody got PSM on their C2 or C4 and do you feel it's worth the effort trying find a used car with it or retor fit it?

TIA
Soon-to-be-happy-once-again
Mark

Dubai911

I don't have PSM, and to be honest, don't miss it. The car has more grip than I expected, and is not a handful like previous 911's. Don't get to caught up on the PSM, find yourself a nice clean 996 and enjoy.

ArthurK

MS911,

Firstly, welcome to the forum. Now with respect to PSM, I have never driven a car with PSM but I must admit I don't miss it on my car. My 993 was definitely twitchier than the 996 and even then I didn't suffer any adverse reactions to my spirited driving.

The 996 is more planted and definitely more forgiving than the previous 993/964s. You can through it around quite comfortably and it wont bite too hard Also, I doubt you can retrofit PSM to the car as there are a number of sensor that need to be in place for it to function.

Why not drive a 996, if you haven't already, and see what it is like. Better yet get Peter Sullivan to take you for a spin, he will convince you that you have no need for PSM The C4 will definitely give you a different sense driving it - more reassuring but definitely less fun overall

Oh and by the way, if you do end up buying a 996, run and run as fast you can from this forum, it will hurt your bank account balance

Patrick

PSM is great if you are driving in the slick stuff. I have driven on glare ice and it makes the car driveable, and it is interesting to play with in the rain. However, it is intrusive at the track and sometimes, though rarely, even in normal street driving. You can't shut the system completely off (search these forums for more discussion on that subject) I'd be happier without mine and I suspect you will be happier without it.

houldsworth1

PSM is no different than ABS - having it is a definite plus but 99.9% of the time you will never need it.

Where these things really come in handy is not in spirited driving, when you are focussed on the job at hand, but on those days when you are just not in that mode or things come out of the blue - such as diesel on the road (not much of a problem in the U.S.)

The first time mine cut in was a on a very cold morning bringing my kid back from soccer practise and before I got the snow tires on. Surrounded by a sea of mini-vans and SUVs I was making a left onto a very busy road. A small gap opened and I figured I would use the power to get be safely out of the way but I used too much gas for tires that were that cold - the back kicked out and the PSM cut in. I think without it I would have made a horses *** out of myself.

Personally I am glad to have it, especially since I plan to drive the car during the winter but I would certainly not say that it was a requirement.

Best of luck!

Barry

rss997

I dont have it and have not had any problems, but then again I live in San Diego!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I drove in real winter conditions I would get it, other than that you do not need it.

Robert

TurboMark

PSM came standard on my C4. I have never driven the car to the point where PSM took over and actually the light has never come on.

If you find a car you look and it has PSM, great. However, I would not make a decision over a car based on PSM / No PSM.

Patrick

You just need to liven up the driving a bit!

earlyapex

PSM, like any other safety feature won't be missed until it saves you from an unexpected event. Since most of us will never in a situation where we loose control of the car, I'm not surprised that those without it feel it's an unnecessary option. I, on the other hand, appreciate that I have PSM given the cars tremendous capabilities and unpredictable nature of the road, weather, surrounding drivers, etc. I've driven my car on the race track and autocross and I have found that PSM overkill on the autocross. On the race track, I used PSM as a gauge of how smoothly I was driving. You can drive very quickly and even drift your car without PSM activating. Sudden under or oversteer would activate the system. That said, you can drive your 996 to very high rates of speed on the race track and be pretty competitive without PSM coming on. Some drivers never get this and use PSM to pull them around the track and give them a false sense of self confidence. They usually find out how wrong they were when they turn the system of and end up in the dirt. Is it worth the extra money? That depends on you. Ask me and I say yessss! I drive my car to work and around the state with my wife and child and I wouldn't have the car without it.

TT Gasman

PSM cannot be retrofitted, so you will have to find a car equipped from the factory. To me PSM is cheap insurance on the street, not needed 99.8% of the time but when you do it's already intervened. I worry not about my car but all the other idiots out there on the road who are likely to do something completely unpredicted at the worst time, that's when PSM can help. On the track I leave it on, as a gauge of smoothness and a backup if I do something stupid. It's not very intrusive compared to other systems out there, BMW and Ford systems are very intrusive to the point that they are irritating (Ford). It's not the end of the world if you don't have it, and it may be very hard to find a car in your area, but if you can find a PSM car go for it IMO.

Lomcevak

I have PSM on a C2 and consider it another safety device like ABS or the airbags. Like the airbags I don't plan to use PSM, but.......

MNJohn

then decide how much you're willing to "roll the dice". I have two 996s and wouldn't have bought either one without PSM.

IMHO, while it one thing to get a 911 without PSM if you're a professional driver (with professional skils to go along) and don't want a possible electronic intrusion at the 95% limit, it is (or should be) a totally different situation if you're an amateur driver who routinely drives on the highway (with lots of "stupid" drivers who can induce an accident) and a "weekend racer" who ocassionally drives on a track.


http://www.startribune.com/stories/435/5142988.html

Best regards,

John

smshirk

I have PSM on my 996. It has only operated once, that I know of. An 18 wheeler cut over in front of me on the interstate, I was doing about 85. My only option was going to the space he had just vacated, which I did with a hard right turn of the wheel. The PSM kicked in, keeping me from going sideways, but more importantly slowed me enough so that when I got on the brakes hard to keep from rear ending the car in the right lane, I was able to get slowed just enough to move on over into the shoulder. I'm convinced I would have had a very serious accident without PSM. I used to turn it off when driving spiritedly through the mountains.....never again

Scouser

PSM saved my life once.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/77944-not-the-best-driver-but-my-c4-did-the-unbelievable-this-sat-night.html

MS911

Thanks all for your great feedback!

I would consider myself a fairly competent driver having had the 964 for 4 yrs and having done two high performance driving courses with Aussie instructors Alf Costanzo and John Bowe.

The 964 almost bit me twice when I had it (both times in the wet), so looking at self preservation has attracted me to the "PSM" issue.

From what listers are saying it seems that the 996 C2 is more predictable/safe than the 964, so I would likely notice that on a standard non-PSM 996 anyway.

I will keep looking and if I happen to find "the car" whether it is C2 or C4, will be happy knowing that either is a step upwards in safety from the 964.

ArthurK, it seems you are in my neighbourhood. Would love to see your 996 as the only ones I have seen have been at the dealers (you never feel like you get the full juice from these guys)

My 10 y.o. daughter is begging me to get a cab (I have had 2 x SAAB convertibles previously), so now that I have resolved the PSM matter it is really between a coupe or cab!

Best,
Mark Strachan
mark@artistphotographer.com
www.artistphotographer.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++
2003 Silver SAAB 93 Aero Sedan/Bi-Xenons/Sunroof/17's
sold in 2003 964 C2 midnight blue coupe, manual, 16's