EJAX

Wouldn't it be nice if Porsche just came clean and told us?

SoonerE39

Yes to the 100K warranty is the obvious answer. But IF they ever allowed a 100K extention, it would likely be limited to the RMS only and maybe 6 years or so. But it's never gonna happen so it's a moot point.

JAT

It really would be nice if Porsche came clean about the cause of RMS. It sounds like others have good ideas of what causes it – warped metal - but who knows.

Received a reply from one dealer over a letter I sent concerning RMS. As expected he said RMS appears to be a minor issue & not as big as some make it out to be - in his opinion. He added that when it does occur Porsche has fixed under warranty and in some circumstances out of warranty at no cost. Very oddly he added that the current Porsche he is driving has an oil leak that is RMS. His was a slow leak that did not concern him because the engine would not be damaged he added. He planned on having it fixed in the shop soon.

Torags

Some said that about wiring harness...... What's with the BMW panorama?

JasonAndreas

The RMS just went on my 964RSA for the second time. The original leak was at 40k and the oil contaminated the clutch so that had to be replaced. 90k miles later the same thing happened and once again my clutch needs to be replaced because of oil contamination. So while a failed RMS can at first be just a PIA it has the potential to cause a lot more $$$ problems.

JAT

I'm not going to say you are lucky with your RMS problems on the 964RSA. You are fortunate though for the amount of miles driven with out oil leaks.

What 996 & Boxster owners have learned is that RMS leaks occur on low mileage cars - many times less than 10,000 miles. Once the leak occurs and is plugged with a new seal a brand new leak comes back in many cases just months later.

Chances are when you sell your 964 there will not be questions about oil leaks. When I sell my 996 or trade it in for sure RMS will be asked about. Everyone seems to know about oil leaking 996s.

When choosing to buy a sports car I looked at several car brands. Porsche won my business largely because of a family friend that collects sports cars. Allen said Porsche has historically been the very best sports car when it comes to reliability. I'm not sure about that. With the lurking problem with my Cayenne and now RMS leaks for the sports cars - reliability and Porsche no long go together IMO.

Yesterday while talking with a Porsche salesman about the 996, 997 & RMS he asked if I was interested on bidding for a new 997. I did not know what to say. Possibly I'd be interested in the turbo once it comes out I told him - since the turbo apparently does not have RMS problems in such great %s. To be honest I don't think I'll buy another new Porsche so long as these problems remain. Porsche cars may be "technical marvels of engineering" but they are not going to receive my business with these reliability problems un- addressed in a public way.

Chrisp3

I would be more than happy to extend my warranty to 100,000 miles and would also be willing to pay for it! My 99 is out of warratny and I cannot find anyone who will write a contract on a car if it is out of warranty.

At the end of the day, we shouldn't complain.....we have all, for the most part, gotten good use out of the original factory warranty. If the scare factor is high enough....well maybe it's time to trade up. You will certainly spend more stepping up then you will for the cost of an RMS repair.

ignacio

i wonder if rms troubles will inhibit sales of the 997? it has essentially the same engine, being essentially a 996 with a retro face and a cayenne interior. i know i wouldn't buy one until the rms issue is addressed.

Torags

PAG have made some changes to the block. I wonder if it's in response to the rms issue. If it is I hope they fixed it.

gpallem

What I find disappointing about the RMS issue is that with Porsche you can pretty much count on some big model-specific problem. Don't get me wrong; I love having a 911 and have had one of the various iterations for the past decade and a half. Nonetheless, going from memory and without trying to be scientific about this, you can draw up a pretty formidable list in a hurry:

-911 SC had exploding airboxes (cheap fix with pop-off valve)
-911 Carrera 84-89 had valve guide problems
-both models above had lousy syncros up to the 915 transmission
-a series of 964's had the Freudenberg problem
-993 had the wiring harness problem and something else that escapes me
-996 has the RMS
-Boxster same as above

Seriously, is there any model that Porsche makes that doesn't come with some big-a... problem? At some point, you would expect them to step away from the mom and pop atmosphere that allows these types of symptomatic problems. I griped about it in another post, but the sad plastic paint on the center console and various other bits of the interior that cratches like balsa wood is just plain sad. Why does Porsche allow this sort of thing past the testing period? Must be "je m'enfoutisme."--"we don't care cause we can get away with it." Since the competition isn't exactely bullet proof either (Maser, Ferrari, Lotus, and some others) they probably can. After all, in the land of the blind, one-eye is King.

Torags

The Cayenne is a sobering experience for PAG. The majority of these owners actually drive the cars daily & they have short fuses, with only a little loyalty.

Perhaps PAG will become more customer responsive.

JAT

We could break down past Porsche problems, compare how Porsche dealt with the issues in the past, but in reality does this matter? IMO there is no equivalence to the current 996 & Boxster oil leaking problems to the past. This is the 21st century. Is it too much to ask that Porsche make cars that do not leak oil in the first couple thousand miles? When the cars do leak can't Porsche at least have a legitimate solution?

I hope too that the new 997 has been redesigned such that it will not experience RMS leaking. You don't wish this kind of problem on others. What is upsetting is that for the entire production run of the Boxster and 996, 6 or 7 years, Porsche has had a solution. From what I read of others the turbo, the GT3, which have a engine block similar to the 993 - I think, do not have RMS leaks to the same volume due to a different engine design. Why didn't Porsche, the most profitable carmaker in the world, redesign their engines sooner to fix the RMS issue?

I do not believe it is too demanding to ask of Porsche that they address the RMS issue publicly. At this point it is too Porsches benefit that they do so. Porsche's current CEO said in Forbes magazine that it was his hope that before he left office that Porsche be selling 100,000 cars a year. His model was to copy BMW. If Porsche really wants to be the next BMW, wants to be mainstream, they certainty need to be more customer responsive.

They also need to address the Cayenne problems but that is for another thread!

Arthur

Can somebody tell me exactly what happens if you let a RMS problem go unchecked? Does the clutch blow up? Slip? Fail? Other than a leak, what mechanical trouble can one expect from this leak? If it isn't a catastrophic problem maybe just ignore it, and top the crankcase off once in a while? Sorry, haven't heard of any disasters happening to a drivetrain as a result of the leak. I've had one RMS replaced, and might need a second one; oil "sweat" is building up at the seam.

Scouser

There is much debate on this. Nobody really knows except Porsche. Since they won;t admit to the RMS being an issue (and that's why they wont say it is fixed in the 997....if it is fixed....since doing so would infer an admission). However, one can read between the lines.....and with repeat RMS problems, Porsche in the US typically replace the engine. The fact that they replace the engine infers the probable fact that it can lead to long term engine problems. I have heard of
several people having to have the clutch replaced because of oil contamination
from the leaking seal. But in my experience with 4 RMS replacements, I have
not had any clutch problems. In fact I have just clocked 40k miles on the same clutch!

I was in Cannes Cote de Zure in Southern France last week on vacation. While there, there was some sort of Auto festival on and Porsche had a stand. It was
manned by Porsche of Antebes. Anyway the next day I happen to be in Antebes and I popped into the Porsche centre there (they had a 997). Got talking to a salesman (in broken busicuit English). Told him about my problems and as we were talking the sales manager came over and joined in the conversation. Then an engineer joined in. The engineer was German and spoke excellent English. He brought a most interesting analysis to the problem. I didn't mention my gearbox problem to him but he said that he believes the cause of the RMS problem originates from a gearbox problem. I asked him to explain more. He said he has been a Porsche engineer for several years and he has replaced many 996/986 RMS's and many resulted also in replacement gearboxes due to missaligned Getrag drive shafts which wobble ever so slightly but put strain on the flywheel and thus the crankshaft. He said that the problem "has" been fixed in the 997 as the 997 uses an entiely different gearbox, flysheel and engine block. He also said that it's a 50/50 chance that the gearbox would never be diagnosed since it does not necessarily show a problem. It just manifests in the RMS failing. He explained that he had a customer with a new 996 C4S and
he had an RMS problem. He replaced it (he used the mandrel). Then it came
back again. The mandrel showed bad toleramnce the 2nd time so he replaced the engine. Then it came back again 3rd time. Again he replaced the seal.
But alas it went again. Finally he came up with the gearbox idea so he ordered
a replacement gearbox. He never did replace the seal again. With the new
gearbox fitted the C4S has never had the RMS problem again and he said that
was 2 years ago.

I then explained my gearbox problem. He feels absolutely certain that it is
the cause of my repeat RMS problems. He even said, strange as it may seem
but my RMS problem may dissapear even without the seal changed if I replace
the gearbox. But he said the gearbox must be aligned correctly and tightened
correctly in bolt order. He also said that the alignment is something he has got used to using his "ears?". Yes, he said he actually can hear if the alignment is
correct. I am not sure what he means by this.

Anyway, he was a very interesting guy to talk to and IMHO he brought an
interesting hypothesis to the subject.

Coincidentally, my OPC engineer diagnosed the gearbox being my RMS problems
and I fobbed him off in the end telling him it was BS. Even Porsche GB head office agreed with me and told the OPC that he can;t use that excuse. But maybe there is something in this......we could all be running round with gearbox
problems and not knowing it....until the RMS problem shows up. I also wonder
that since they have to tak the gearbox down to do the RMS, could it be that when the gearbox is put back that it's a 50/50 chance that it is aligned properly.
If it coincidentally gets aligned as it is replaced then you don't get the RMS problem but if it isn't then it just returns. Just a hunch based on what I have learned in the last week.

Tbred911

1. BMW has given it's owners a 100,000 mile warranty for the problems in early M3's.... and that's for a cheaper car....
2. Porsche CONSTANTLY brags on how much profit they make on every 911 sold... I've read this about 5-6 times in certain publications over the years.

Porsche is accountable for this problem! case closed.

Maybe they can use some of those "profits" to keep their loyal customers before some decide to switch over to the upcoming BMW M3 V8 (which will be less expensive than a 911!!)