Paul Marangoni

How about if someone on this board (preferably an attorney) writes up a letter and we all use this draft for our own letters. Also, whom should we be addressing these letters to? Let's get to it guys!

raidentech.com

Ya, let's get the paper works going. Any lawyers in this forum? We should take a stand man!!

munro86

Who the hell would vote no?

Paul Marangoni

Well, some of us already have a 100,000 mile extended warranty, and feel that Porsche should do more than just extend their existing warranty. Exactly what is up for discussion.

ignacio

bernie

it appears that while sales are so strong that porsche will probably not acknowledge rms as an issue. i wish porsche had stronger competitors.

i will not buy another boxer,996 or 997 while this remains an open issue. to say this saddens me because i have been a huge porsche fan and owner since 1976. otherwise 996's are very reliable and great fun

at least the turbo appears immune.

Torags

The OEM springs are probably made to tow the capacity load (hence the harsh springing for passenger cars).

Softer springs might reduce tongue weight limits.

My .02

Torags

Oooops........... Wrong thread.

sorry....

JAT

For those who have experienced RMS problems have you filed complaints with the government? I ask this because I could not imagine anything greater to get Porsche's attention than have the government involved. I see that the National Highway Transportation Safety Agency has a complaint section at their sight:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/

Not sure how this works but maybe this could help.

Just from personal experience my father was able to get ironically a German firms attention by threaten to file a complaint with the government. He used to work for a German firm that at one point asked to buy out his employment contract early. For some reason though the co. was not willing to pay all monies owed. He went back a forth for a month on this with him calmly asking for his money and them being asses - to say the least. Looking for help he contacted his lawyer. Lawyer suggested that the government be involved, as companies hate government involvement, and suggested the Labor Department be contacted (I think that was the agency.)

Next time he talked with his old employer he told them if they did not pay up the plan was to get the government involved. Next thing he knew some nice company lawyers called apologizing about the "misunderstanding". Money was wired the next day.

Hope this helps.

Torags

Maybe PAG is not the culprit, but the messenger......

Who is to blame for the misalignment, that results in the rms failure?

The blocks are cast by Kolbenschmidt:

http://www.kolbenschmidt.de/index.php?lang=3&fid=312

The way they are manufactured is a great read for motorheads.

Does the metallurgy allow the block to move under stress and changing heat conditions? Does the block maker bore & thread for the main bearings (assembled at PAG)? - that may be misaligned.

Improper seal installation would be extremely isolated if any. The seal fits in nest, you would have to really try for an improper install.

Furthermore, someone in PAG is running in circles to try to find an answer. They have tried new tooling and deeper nest, to no avail...

Heresy has it that the 997 block is redesigned & hopefully they found an answer. But they have a responsibility to the 996 owners. We have to keep their feet to the fire...

JAT

Interesting about Kolbenschmidt.

I remember reading the below off of a Boxster board called www.986faq.com and wondered if true - if so whether this might be the cause of so many RMS leaks on Boxsters and 996s. I must admit I know little on how car engines work and whether the crankcase mentioned is close to the RMS.

"In some cases, there is a leak through the crank case wall. Porsche has a unique way of casting the crank cases on the Boxster and 996. Porsche subcontracts out the process of pouring the Boxster aluminum crank cases. The process of doing the pouring is problematic if the aluminum doesn't flow or cool smoothly, causing porous crank case walls. The original machine that was producing the crank cases was having a huge number of rejects. The current machine is having about a 35% reject rate. A rejected engine is not put into a car, and is presumably melted down. In the extremely rare case, though, an engine that should have been rejected slips into production. If so, you will detect large amounts oil loss immediately after taking deliver, even though there is none dripping on the ground. Even more infrequently, the expansion and contraction of the engine due to heat can expose the problem later. Porsche's quality control on this problem at this point is very good, and almost no currently shipping vehicles should have this problem. If the problem does occur, though, the entire engine must be replaced. Allow one to four weeks of downtime if this occurs, depending on parts availability."

Tool Pants

What is said in the Boxster faq is true, but not related to the RMS issue.

Some of those defective blocks were sleeved and put in 1998 and 1999 Boxsters.

http://www.pca.org/tech/tech_qa_question.asp?id={F3EA752A-E838-43E5-A43D-BB4F445F5A8F}

And this is what would happen if the sleeve moved.

JAT

Thanks Tool Pants

Yuck!

Porsche has an engine problem. As the saying goes "the cat is out of the bag." More and more people are learning about the oil leaking problems that Boxsters and 996 have. I used to hope this was a small isolated problem that would go away. Now it appears RMS leaking is what the 996 and 986 will be known for - when it comes to problem issues.

I agree we need to keep Porsches feet to the fire. I'm going to shot off letters to the two Porsche dealers I've bought from expressing concerns. Hope too those with RMS problems writte or call in complaints to the government. Since there isn't damage from this issue IMHO it is hard to see where lawyers would want to get involved.

1AS

The arguments over duration of Porsche"s responsibility are cogent. My basis for believing the RMS issue should be covered for life-of-the-car is that it is a built in flaw, not a wear item or idiosyncratic part failure. Every previous Porsche series carried the liklihood that the car could run far past 100K without a major failure. That is no longer true. I'm a huge Porsche loyalist (5 to date, 2 current, and a Cayanne soon), but can't see buying a Boxster or 996 until this issue is clarified. I"m relieved my tt is unaffected, but one year from now, or sooner if the rms goes, my Boxster is gone. AS

Torags

I wonder if that was a Nikosil block: Alumninum with nickel plated sleeves. Apparently the nickel plated sleeves interacted with the aluminum and sulfur fuel. A big problem in the UK.

Current blocks are still outsourced, the process Lokosil uses silicone sleeves w aluminum squeezed thru. Very interesting casting process.

There is always a problem between different metals (regarding different rates of expansion/contraction at different temps).

I wonder if that has anything to do with the RMS? (as in warpage)

JAT

Oh, I probably should keep quite on this as I feel I'm over my head on the cause of the RMS problem. Thought to ask though if any lubricant is used on the RMS seal.

I only ask because from what I've read aluminum can rust under special circumstances. Actually aluminum rusts under normal circumstances but unlike iron, which turns red and flaky when it rusts, rusted aluminum forms aluminum oxide one of the toughest materials known.

There is a substance that when it comes into contact with aluminum will cause it to rust like iron and that is mercury.

I used to work in the vegetable oil industry and remember Q/C from time to time would test for the presence of metals, mercury being one of them. Could it be possible that if a lubricant is used on the RMS that it might contain trace amounts of mercury in it, which then comes into contact with the aluminum block and then cause a small leak?

Any way just a thought to throw out there.