vove

We should all be awarded GT3's for all of the worries and concern that the RMS issues 996 drivers have to deal with.

Torags

The rms leak is the "tip of the iceberg", and is the indicator that the transmission and the engine is out of line.

raidentech.com

IMO, they should recall all the 996 engines, and give you a new 3.8L 997 engine.

jlandreth

Porsche should stand behind the car.My local Porsche dealer told me that Porsche has never even provided the dealers with an adequate explanation for the problem.These cars cost a lot of money and Porsche makes a significant profit on them.This is not just a small oil leak .For a lot of people it has meant a blown engine.

TD in DC

I am not a Porsche mechanic, but my understanding is that an RMS leak may or may not be the "tip of the iceberg." On some engines it might indicate a bigger problem. On other engines it might indicate merely a faulty seal. On other engines it might indicate the improper insertion of a perfectly good seal into a perfectly good engine.

RMS is a real and serious issue. However, if you want a real and honest response from the company, people cannot demand unreasonable things (i.e., lifetime guarantee of the entire engine) or exaggerate a real problem (i.e., by claiming that 50% of all engines have the problem -- because the company probably knows exactly how many engines have been repaired -- or claiming that an engine by definition is no good simply because it had one RMS leak).

I genuinely feel for those who have experienced multiple RMS leaks -- Porsche should do whatever it takes to resolve the problem. However, if you have one leak, Porsche should get the chance to fix it. If it doesn't leak again during the standard warranty period, where is the problem?

Just my two cents.

BTW, I have owned a Porsche that had an RMS leak. It was fixed and it never came back. The worst I experienced was a quarter sized oil pool on my garage floor, which I cleaned and forgot. I have no fear about continuing to drive 996s, and in fact bought another.

EJAX

Disagree with TD in DC. With all due respect, TD doesn't know what the problem is or what Porsche knows about the problem. If the 996 has a design defect, and from reading these posts it appears that it may, then Porsche should disclose same and agree to resolve the problems associated therewith, including engine replacements if that is what is required. If this is not a design defect, Porsche should provide data explaining that. We are the consumers. The company must disclose known defects. To me this isn't a warranty issue. If the rms issue happens to me I will expect Porsche to fix it for free. Period. Porsche steps in and replaces engines when pushed not out of some good samaritan caring but because it wants to avoid being sued. Porsche makes substantial profits. Perhaps some of those profits should be returned to the consumers who have to replace their engines due to this problem.

My two cents . . .

TD in DC

What exactly do you think I am saying? My point is that you are more likely to get a reasonable result -- which EVERYONE, including me, wants -- if you make reasonable demands rather than unreasonable demands. Some people here have suggested that the warranty on the entire engine should be extended due to fear about RMS. If there is a problem with RMS, then the solution should focus on RMS. That is my only point. Also, if you make to to 68k miles without a problem, and then you need to replace a seal on the engine, well, then maybe Porsche doesn't ALWAYS have a responsibility to pay (read carefully folks, I didn't say Porsche should NEVER pay). Just my two cents.

EJAX

TD: in my view you have it backwards. The company is not behaving reasonably by failing to disclose and resolve the problem with its own very loyal customer base. It is difficult for the consumer to know in these circumstances what is reasonable and what is not. Thus, your suggestion about what should be the reasonable response doesn't make much sense because you don't have any factual basis for what it is you're suggesting. Don't be afraid to demand that the companies with whom you do business conform to the law and good business practices. Personally I don't care about replacing one seal but if it causes engine failure then I will not be very happy about it.

TD in DC

What? My view has nothing to do with being "afraid to demand" anything. It has everything to do with being pragmatic. Please, feel free to demand the moon and stars and I wish you the best of luck in achieving it on behalf of all owners. If you succeed, I will buy you a beer and erect a shrine in my garage to you. I just think that being strategic about demands will increase the chances that the demands will be granted. That is good common sense. I think that demanding an extended warranty for the ENTIRE engine for the LIFETIME of the car is less likely to be granted than a demand that the warranty for RMS-related issues be extended to the extent that a particular engine has a RMS-related defect. Honestly, even without any defects, the seal will go bad eventually, as will several other parts. If the engine doesn't have an RMS defect, do you think that Porsche would even consider a perpetual replacement policy? I don't, but if you can achieve it, more power to you.

Further, what is your basis for telling me that I "don't have any factual basis for what it is you're suggesting." What is your factual basis for assuming that my suggestion that owners should demand remedies linked to the problem is based on fear of asking Porsche to "conform to the law and good business practices"? I am pragmatic, and I fear no company, particularly not Porsche.

Oh yea, fund Rennlist by becoming a paying member please.

EJAX

TD - relax. Is your remark about not being a paying member supposed to be an insult? If they don't want people who are not members to post, perhaps they should have told us. Having said that, I'm fairly new to the board and to Porsche and I'll consider your insult, err suggestion.

Once again, you don't know the genesis of the problem or the damages it may cause or what Porsche knows about it (unless of course you're affiliated with Porsche in some way). You are suggesting that consumers who are essentially "flying blind" when dealing with a company that is may not be coming clean with them about a potentially significant issue be "pragmatic" about how they deal with Porsche about the issue. I agree with you that extending the entire warranty seems unnecessary, but again I don't know what all of the potential issues are that relate to this apparent design defect. And posts above suggests that even Porsche's own dealers don't know either. Since the consumer doesn't know, and since Porsche should explain the problem and resolve it but chooses not to do so, I would be overinclusive in my demands rather than underinclusive. Seems pragmatic to me.

Just my two cents.

Paul Marangoni

Has there ever been ever official announcement from Porsche re the RMS leaking issue? What would it take for all of us to get a petition going, where we ask for a full explanation and a full disclosure as to the full extent of the problem? Do you think they would answer us? If they ignore the petition, we could inform trade magazines and consumer groups etc. Does anyone think this would work?

TD in DC

I make a conscious effort not to insult anyone, and if I do, it is always made in gest. My comment to you was serious. If you are a Porsche fan and you like having discussions, fund the board. I did not say that you could not post, or that I would not engage in discussions with you until you fund. Also, I said please.

The only aspect of your posts that does annoy me slightly is the fact that you presume to tell me what I know and what I do not know. What I have said is that RMS leaks can have different causes -- some of which are a defect and some of which are not. I am very confident, based on my conversations with Porsche mechanics, that this is true. Also, it would be shocking if it were not true. My observation is not a flash of brilliance.

Also, my comments had nothing to do with what disclosures Porsche should or should not make. I did not even address that issue. My point was very narrow. In this latest post you seem to agree with me when you say that "extending the entire warranty seems unnecessary." That was my only point. Even if every RMS leak were the result of a defect, then my suggestion of extending the warranty to cover that defect is inclusive enough to resolve everyone's problem, and it is one that Porsche might consider. As such, the common sense of my suggestion is not undermined by any lack of knowledge about the exact cause of the defect: If there is a defect, the warranty should cover the defect regardless of the exact cause of the defect. As such, I don't need to know the genesis of the problem, or what Porsche knows about it. (My comment about Porsche knows was meant to point out solely that if we exagerate the extent of the problem, we will lose credibility.)

However, I do know the damage RMS-failures cause. The bottom line is that RMS failure -- in nearly every case -- is detectable, and nearly always detectable before long-term damage to the rest of the engine (again, apart from RMS-related issues) is incurred. If it were the type of defect that was NOT easily detectable before massive destruction (the type that extends far beyond the defect itself -- ala BMW M3 engine explosions), then a warranty extension on the entire engine might be warranted. Even there, however, BMW did not extend the warranty indefinitely. Your suggestion that we need to be overinclusive would be more appropriate, IMHO, in the BMW M3-type scenario, not the RMS failure scenario.

I have the feeling that you think I am saying something that I am not trying to say at all. Porsche should be upfront with its customers and we deserve better. However, if we, as Porsche owners, are going to try to change something, we need to be pragmatic.

No insults intended (only slight annoyance experienced) only frank discussion. BTW, if I really were torqued, your suggestion that I should "relax" really would send me over the edge. Luckily, I enjoy my life too much to get worked up over conversations on boards.

jlandreth

O.K. you two...you know who I mean.. Take a deep breath,hold... release. You are obviously both very bright,passionate, articulate people, so don't get into a personality/ego clash.Essentially, you differ only in the fine print.There is more common ground here than you recognize!

TD in DC

I am the great Cornholio . . .

Scouser

Actually this is the best method.

We here in the UK have lobied with Porsche Club GB to take it up with Porsche GB in regards to the RMS problem. You may have heard that PCGB conducted a
survey to 1000 boxster owners, approx 650 responded and about 24% of them said they had or have had an RMS problem. Sadly the survey was not done on the 996 Register but i believe it will happen. It won't come as a surprise to you that I am extremely active in the PCGB involvlement. However, Porsche GB have so far laughed us off .

My own RMS problems are possibly a record. I am now awaiting my 5th RMS in
less than a year and my gearbox is hosed. Nevertheless, Porsche GB will not replace my engine because in the UK Porsche GB who are a wholy owned subsiduary of PAG do not have a policy that exchanges engines because of RMS problems. So, I am going down the legal path and hoping that pressure from PCGB and "also from you guys in the US" will eventually get PAG to offer a palpable resolution to this manufacturing defect.

I have been lobying this RMS problem for over a year both on rennlist and a bunch of other Porsche forums. I have upset a lot of people but also somehow through perservering, managed to get everyone's attention to this problem. I have personally lodged letters of complaint to BBC Top Gear, BBC watchdog, Porsche GB, Porsche Club GB, Porsche AG including actually talking to the worldwide service manager. Things are starting to happen but we all know that the US market (yes that's you guys) is their bread and butter. If you guys don't stand up and be counted then nothing will "ever" come of it. So all of you and I mean even those of you who haven't had the RMS problem "yet", get your keyboards busy and write letters of complaint, concern, dissatisfaction and annoyance. Send your letters to PNA, PCNA, PAG, Excellence and everyone and anyone who can push it along. If you guys in the US make enough noise, PAG will start really panicing and will be forced into doing something
about it. The bottom line is that there is too much talk and not enough action.
They have to be made accountable for this problem. So stop yapping and chuckling and get to it.

Oh and BTW: I note a bunch of you RMS suffering 996 owners are not displaying the "RMS Club Failed" avatar. The more we show this the more it
will get noticed. I see it on just about every Forum but more often than
not its displayed by the same people (thanks guys BTW). We need a lot more support.
Please, I beg of you. Put this avatar in your signature and show some support. But more importantly, wherever you are in the world....write those letter.

It is located here: http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/rmsclubfailed2.jpg