E. J. - 993 Alumni

Because you take over another user's thread, step on your dick with golf spikes on, **** off all the people that could help you and then turn around and ask those same people for help on the very subject that you were so against in the first place.

At least be smart enough to start your own shock thread and hope that none of the other helpful people here have seen this thread.

Trojan Man

To set the record straight:

I NEVER said you have to use a coilover setup; I simply said that the damper must be matched to the spring.

However, now that you brought it up, most people feel that the best way to accomplish that match is with the use of a coilover.

Finally, and I say this without any malice or ill will - just common sense: It is simply unfair to call a coilover setup "overkill" for a Porsche. Unless you call it overkill in the same way that buying a Porsche for daily driving is "overkill" - in which case why don't you take the "overkill" one more step and have a bitchin suspension setup.

No hard feelings

deputydog95

Why does it seem that the more posts you have is directly proportional to how much of dick you become? I shouldn't even sink to this level, but I don't know why I'm being attacked personally when we're talking about suspension parts. It's not like I brought up your mom

I didn't take over the thread. I chimed in and this thing kept going. It's still directly related to his question.

I'm not against doing the full suspension. How many times do I have to say that? I just want to do the absolute minumum to lower my car strictly for appearance. Safely and reliably. The info I had was that it could be done with just springs. I called brandywine just this morning to check on some prices, and yet again...i was told that it was fine to do just springs with porsche stock shocks and that many people do it. I can't help it if I'm gettting contradicting information.

Step on my dick? **** on people... Could you be a little more dramatic?

I'm at least listening to what you guys have to say. I'm not so opinated that I have to be right. I'm trying to be enlightened here, as the information I get from outside sources has been different.

I can't believe you guys are getting this heated over car parts. Can you or anybody else answer my question or not?

If you choose not to answer my question because you don't like me or my posts, then just don't say anything. Enough with the personal stuff.

All I'm looking for is some accurate info from people with experience.

roberga

So Elton, what do you think???

E. J. - 993 Alumni

DD95. I am not a dick. Far from it. I enjoy helping people who sincerely want help. Hence my tireless three year effort to force Porsche the company to issue a recall on the 993 wiring harness. Tens of thousands of porsche owners were helped by my direct actions. So I can be helpful.

But to answer your question, in a non direct way: I had H&R springs on my 993 without changing the shocks. The ride was so harsh I broke a rib. Well, not exactly, but you get the idea. Of course the shocks pretty worn too, but the difference between stock shocks and H&R springs was pretty big. I sold the car before putting on a proper suspension.

I have driven and ridden in lots of 996s with various suspensions. The bottom line is that you may be fine with just springs, but I wouldn't do it. Just get some beefier shocks, maybe the HD or some other ones. Plus, think of this: stock shocks on any 911 dont last too long. So you will be replacing them eventually anyway, why not do it now as preventive medicine and enjoy the better ride afforded by a proper setup? Especially since it costs the same to change just springs or springs and shocks. Either way, you'll need an alignment job too.

newport996

Let me chime in as well. I am speaking from experience with my Boxster. I put on Eibachs (not cheap springs) on it. It was extermely harsh. H&R's are said to be MORE harsh. Again, sold it before I did something about it, but my fiance wouldn't ride in the car because it was too harsh. So I want to give my 996 a better look, but don't want that harsh ride. Talked to lots of people. I thought the ROW M030 would do it, but that would be a lot more harsh than the stock 996 setup. OK...just springs and EVERYONE I talked to said don't do that. Again, more harsh that stock. AND you cannot adjust the height to where you want it. I thought my Boxster was too low in the front. So that left 2 options, spring and shock combo. Which may cost $1200-1500 for that combo. Pros....Look, decent ride, handling, performance. Cons, cannot adjust the ride height. It is what it is. Cannot adjust ride quality. Coliover setup $1800-2400. Pros. Look, performance, ride quality, handling, height adjustable to taste. Ride adjustable to taste. Cons, cost.

So, since I bought a performance car that I drive 3-5 days a week, I wanted to have a decent ride. Since I paid a premium for the car, an extra $300-400 would not kill me for the ability to have the car the way I want it. So to me it's a no brainer. Yes you can do just springs, but that would cost you more in the long run. Why? Hows this....You lower it with springs. This causes premature wearing of your shocks. So you get new shocks, pay the install price twice (once for the springs, once for the shocks) and this wil pay the extra cost of the coilover setup. So unless you do it all at once, it will cost you morein the long run. Now, you can use this advice and knowledge that I have gotten from YEARS of research and experience on P Cars and others, or you can ignore. I got the PSS9 system and will install it next week. All sources say my ride quality will IMPROVE with that setup. No one is saying that with just springs...they are probably saying, "It's not too bad...."

deputydog95

Bilstein makes the HD and the sport shocks. They are priced almost the same, wtih the sport being a little more. Any idea which one would be preferable to use with the cargraphic springs? The springs are rated for a 30mm drop. I'm trying to stay as close to the stock ride as possible.

E. J. - 993 Alumni

isn't there a spring that is designed to match the HD shock perfectly? Come as a set? Springs are just springs and I wouldn't care about the brand too much as long as they are a matched set and lower the proper amount.

deputydog95

What about B&G coilovers? I stumbled over these while looking for prices on Bilstein. Are they any good? I had never heard of them before and no one else here has mentioned them. They are priced around the same as what I would spend on springs and shocks. I assume you get what you pay for, so there has to be some horrible downside to them at this price.
here's the link:
http://www.performancecenter.com/pro...4bfe57349d6071

pstoppani

I once put just H&R springs on a car because I was told the springs were designed for the stock shocks. The car was so underdamped it bounced all over the place so within a week I was back for matching shocks. Note that his was a nearly new car so the stock shocks were new.

Anyway, just because a spring manufacturer tells you the springs are designed for stock dampers, don't believe it; even if it is H&R.

Regarding the PSS9, espeically to you Eric, fellow 40th owner, can you really adjust it so it is a softer ride than stock? What does that mean about the spring rates of the PSS9 compared to stock? Are they softer or firmer than stock sport springs?

ebaker

Seems like I read that Bielstein HD and sport shocks had similar valving, but one was shorter for a lower ride height. Bielstein tech can probably tell you. I think the various shocks available have different spring mounting heights. When you mix parts you may not end up with the ride height you expected. You dont have to worry about these issues when you use the (overpriced) factory parts such as ROW 030.

ArthurK

Might as well throw my $0.02 into this. I am by no stretch an expert when it comes to suspension setups, but I know a bad setup when you ride in a car that is totally wrong.

DeputyDog, I too went through this process not long ago. I asked my dealer what would be the best way to lower the car by 20-30mm. Their reply to me was throw a set of eibacs on and you will be right. I then mentioned to them that my A6 was lowered by doing exactly that and the car bottoms out and the ride is now extremely harsh after this change. Their comment to me was, that is right the stock shocks are made for a particular spring height/length and by changing the spring only the characteristics of the ride will change.

At this point in time I said to them, I have spent US$160K for this car I dont want to do it half arsed what do you think of the PSS9 setup. They couldnt stop raving about the setup. They told me that, as I am not sure how low I want to go and how stiff a ride I want, the PSS9 setup will allow me to alter this setting at anytime I like. Unfortunately in Oz mods (and cars for that matter) are not cheap for Porsche. My option was to spend US$700 for eibacs or US$3000 for a full suspension setup which will offer me all and more. At a US$2300 premium I made the decision to go with the PSS9 but I now know why so many people rave about the setup - especially after having a vehicle lowered by just springs.

As much as I loved my 996 prior to the change I now love it twice as much mainly because it is an amazing car to drive with the right setup. My A6 is great but I can honestly say that I have been preparing for it to be upgraded with a PSS9 setup. I am sick of the bottoming out when I go over speed humps or exiting drive ways a bit too fast.

If you are going to spend $1400 then I would highly recommend of taking it a step further and spend $1800-$2000 for the PSS9s you will have more regrets in the future if you do not do it right first go. Apart from that it will cost more in the future for doing potential work twice. Do it right first time and never regret it

Sorry for the long winded response - Also as a side note I too did the change for cosmetic reasons but I wanted to make sure it was also the best way to achieve this cosmetic change

newport996

Arthur what settings are you using? Comapre the ride quality to the stock setup....

jetskied

I just realized that you have the 40th edition. If this car had the USM030 you can buy some ROW M030 springs at AJ USA in San Diego. They have a online site. The ROW spring are the same rate as the US springs. One of the reasons I probably can advocate doing just springs is unlike many of these so called expert enthusiast I can actually R&R the springs and shocks in 2 hours. So labor is not a big deal and I can always make changes if I'm not satisfied. The PSS9 is a great system, but do you really think that you are gonna change the settings that much. Remember if you change the height you need to change alignment settings. I find that unless you're a dedicated track junkie or know how to do home alignment adjustability is for braqgging rights. I doubt you will use the shock setting either. If ride is a concern then the ROW m030 is probably right. If your goal is to have the best suspension I think X74 because you can't go wrong with factory stuff. No matter what anyone says any time you lower a car the ride will be stiffer. What is your tollerance is up to you. I have the M030 and its stiffer, but I thought the standard was too Benz like. Now its perfect to me. The Eibach with stock shocks was about the same, but I found front about 10% harsher. The rear was the same. Good luck with your decission. I suggest to get rides in cars with different suspension, you live in So Cal I'm sure you can find many guys willing to let you ride in their car.

deputydog95

I talked with bilstein US today. Figured they could give me some good advice on this topic. I was actually considering the PSS9 setup after hearing response after response regarding that setup.

He said we would not recommend using the PSS's on the cab. He said there is too much chassis flex on the cab and it will probably damage the car since there is no roof structure. He has had cab customers that have flexed their windshields. His cab customers have not been nearly as happy as his coupe customers. He told me the spring rate is three times what stock is. He told me that the ride is good with the PSS, but the severe spring rate will probably eventually cause damage to the cab. he told me that he has them in his M3 and he can't figure out how they ride so good with such a crazy spring rate.

He also recommended not purchasing the european carnewal pss's. He said they change several things on them for US customers when they are imported into the US. He went through several technical aspects on things they uprade for their US customers so that they will fit properly and operate as they should (diff springs, etc).

He recommended either trying just springs with stock shocks and see how it feels, or a spring shock combo. He didn't recommend a specific spring, but he did say their sport shocks work pretty well with lowered springs. He did that the spring rate should match the shock or you could even bottom out the sport shocks.

Damn, back to the drawing board. And to think I was just about ready to plunk down for the PSS after listening to all the rave reviews. Peer pressure is strong in here Still don't think I would have needed it, but at least it would have been the right tool for the right job. Oh well. Not sure what I'll do now. Didn't even think about the chassis flex issues. Not sure if this applies to all coilovers or just the PSS. The bilstein guys said it's his job so sell this stuff, but he wouldn't feel right recommending the PSS on a cab.

The bilstein rep didn't know if this was going to be an issue with all stiffer lowering setups, or if it was just an issue with the PSS.